USS Fitzgerald Collision

[Jimbuna]

Hopefully this tragic event will serve as a long lasting reminder to all who serve that certain standards must be maintained at every moment in time.

[Onkel Neal]

US Navy, citing poor seamanship, removes commanders of warship in deadly crash

"The collision was avoidable and both ships demonstrated poor seamanship." the U.S. Seventh Fleet said in a media release.

In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved in the collision, the captain of the cargo ship the ACX Crystal said his crew signaled the USS Fitzgerald with flashing lights around 10 minutes before the collision.

The Fitzgerald did not respond or alter course, it said.

The commercial vessel had the right-of-way under maritime rules and the Fitzgerald, which was hit on the starboard side, was likely at fault.

[Aktungbby]

The commanding officer, executive officer and senior non-commissioned officer of the USS Fitzgerald have been "being detached for cause," meaning that the Navy "has lost trust and confidence in their ability to lead," amid the fallout surrounding the deadly collision between the USS Fitzgerald and a cargo ship off the coast of Japan on June 17.
"We've lost trust and confidence in their ability to lead in those positions and they will not return to the ship," Vice Chief of Naval Operations Adm. William Moran told reporters at the Pentagon late Thursday. The 7th Fleet also said several junior officers were relieved of duty.

The Fitzgerald's commanding officer, Cdr. Bryce Benson, and the executive officer, Cdr. Sean Babbit, were both sleeping, and the master chief petty officer, Brice Baldwin, were not on the bridge at the time of the collision, according to the Navy. http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/uss-fitzgerald-leadership-removed/index.html

The service members, whose bodies were found in flooded berthing compartments, on Thursday were posthumously promoted.
The Navy announced the following promotions Wednesday:

• Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, of Palmyra, Va., was posthumously advanced to petty officer third class.
• Shingo Alexander Douglass, 25, of San Diego, Calif., was posthumously advanced to petty officer second class.
• Ngoc T. Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Conn., was posthumously advanced to petty officer second class.
• Noe Hernandez, 26, of Weslaco, Texas, was posthumously advanced to petty officer first class.
• Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, of Chula Vista, Calif., was posthumously advanced to petty officer first class.
• Xavier Alec Martin, 24, of Halethorpe, Md., was posthumously advanced to chief petty officer.
• Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, of Elyria, Ohio, was posthumously advanced to chief petty officer.

[Platapus]

Who was the OOD at the time of the collision? I would think they would be first on the accountability list.

Can any Navy person tell me why they are going after the Senior Petty Officer? Is this the same the Chief of the Boat in the Sub service?

[wdhansps48e]

1. One of stories was that the radar-man failed to detect the inbound missiles on the sps-40 radar display.
Fact: Subsequent analysis showed the SPS-40 could not have detected the missiles.

2. Could have used ECM chaff/decoys.
Fact: Hard to do when the launchers are locked and you can't get the keys. This was the first time I ran into the issue of CO's not trusting the crew. This was magnified when SSDS was introduced to the amphibs. It provided a quick response kill capability. It meant that the CO's would get their first indication of an engagement when the weapons fired. I used Fleet Command to demonstrate the 7 second detect to engage window which if SSDS was not in auto it was to late . This was 17 years ago. I will not comment on Aegis, they and Wayne Meyer were (and I assume minus adm Meyer still are) a legend in their own minds.
3. CIWS missed the targets !
Fact: The CIWS was down awaiting parts CASREPT status unknown.

4. The crew paid a heavy price. To bad the systems they depended on were "no go". It did teach us what Exocet unspent fuel does to aluminum structures.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by wdhansps48e

1. One of stories was that the radar-man failed to detect the inbound missiles on the sps-40 radar display.
Fact: Subsequent analysis showed the SPS-40 could not have detected the missiles.

2. Could have used ECM chaff/decoys.
Fact: Hard to do when the launchers are locked and you can't get the keys. This was the first time I ran into the issue of CO's not trusting the crew. This was magnified when SSDS was introduced to the amphibs. It provided a quick response kill capability. It meant that the CO's would get their first indication of an engagement when the weapons fired. I used Fleet Command to demonstrate the 7 second detect to engage window which if SSDS was not in auto it was to late . This was 17 years ago. I will not comment on Aegis, they and Wayne Meyer were (and I assume minus adm Meyer still are) a legend in their own minds.
3. CIWS missed the targets !
Fact: The CIWS was down awaiting parts CASREPT status unknown.

4. The crew paid a heavy price. To bad the systems they depended on were "no go". It did teach us what Exocet unspent fuel does to aluminum structures.

Errr.... wut?

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Gargamel

Errr.... wut?

wdhansps48e! Odor is very close; but not quite complete comparison I think...the excitement of a first post! As with the USS Fitzgerald:

Admiral's Mast: Citing lapses in training requirements and lax procedures aboard USS Stark, the U.S. Navy's board of inquiry relieved Captain Brindel of command and recommended him for court-martial, along with Tactical Action Officer Lieutenant Basil E. Moncrief. Instead, Brindel and Moncrief received non-judicial punishment from AdmiralFrank B. Kelso II and letters of reprimand. Both opted for early retirement, while Executive OfficerLieutenant Commander Raymond Gajan Jr. was detached for cause and received a letter of admonition.

Punishment very similar to the USS Fitzgerald matter.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Who was the OOD at the time of the collision? I would think they would be first on the accountability list.

The OOD will be disciplined along with the rest of the bridge watch.

Can any Navy person tell me why they are going after the Senior Petty Officer? Is this the same the Chief of the Boat in the Sub service?

The Command Master Chief is the surface equivalent of Chief of the Boat. The investigators probably found the training and operating policies on the ship to be lacking, and the CMC is responsible for that, which means he wasn't doing his job either.

[Onkel Neal]

USS John S. McCain Collides with Merchant Ship Near Strait of Malacca

The guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG 56) was involved in a collision with the merchant vessel Alnic MC while underway east of Singapore and the Strait of Malacca, Aug. 21.

The collision was reported at 6:24 a.m. Japan Standard Time, while the ship was transiting to a routine port visit in Singapore.

Initial reports indicate John S. McCain sustained damage to her port side aft.

Search and rescue efforts are underway in coordination with local authorities.

More information to follow.

WTH, US Navy? If you can't keep merchants from attacking you in a time of peace, what do you expect will happen with hostile warships go after you in a time of war?

[MaDef]

isn't this the third such mishap involving the 7th fleet, in the last 2 years? I'm beginning to wonder if the problem begins a little higher in the chain of command?

[Aktungbby]

underway east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore(strait?)

The problem in a nutshell: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:712515/mmsi:636017930/vessel:ALNIC%20MC For current position of Alnic MC, tanker.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by MaDef

isn't this the third such mishap involving the 7th fleet, in the last 2 years? I'm beginning to wonder if the problem begins a little higher in the chain of command?

4th, per CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/20/asia/u...ore/index.html

Maybe so, but this is a basic seamanship issue.

See Other Boat.

Identify Other Boat.

Avoid Other Boat.

But to make it simple, you can skip the second step. And only skip the third if you are flying the jolly roger, but then you still should do the second one.

[Aktungbby]

MY Verizon tablet works better than my damn internet; REUTERS: currently 10 sailors are missing; five injured. Search ongoing with 'copters.

Originally Posted by MADEF

isn't this the third such mishap involving the 7th fleet,

Precisely my concern; these things always happen in threes...which 'three' we're on is what's distressing me.... @ Gargamel:

And only skip the third if you are flying the jolly roger, but then you still should do the second one.

NOT funny in this particular locale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_the_Strait_of_Malacca EDIT:from my Verizon tablet: the Guardian reflects the USS McCain is sailing to port under its own power. EDIT TO MY EDIT: The NY times 2 hours ago: < after collision; looks like tanker bow bulb hit at water line. This is one of the world's most difficult narrow, shallow passages https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/20/world/asia/uss-john-mccain-collision-merchant-ship.html

....one recurring problem was that while naval ships tended to have live crews on watch, most commercial ships work on autopilot mode to reduce costs, which can lead to problems in busy sea lanes.
Nighttime duty on Navy ships like the John S. McCain is often in the hands of relatively young officers, between 22 and 24, according to a senior Navy officer. They are backed up by officers working the radar and looking out from the command center below the bridge. For the John S. McCain to have hit the Alnic MC, a handful of separate functions in the safety chain must have failed, the officer said.Commercial tankers can be reluctant to shift their course because maneuvering requires turning off the autopilot and costs time and money, the officer added. The Alnic MC has a gross tonnage roughly three times that of the John S. McCain.
The Strait of Malacca is a strategic choke point between the Indian and Pacific Oceans.

Often the visibility and dense haze from chronic forest fires on Sumatra reduce visibility to 200 yards-although that is not cited as a factor....yet

[Rockstar]

http://www.live5news.com/story/36177...ait-of-malacca


Jeebus whatever happened to calling the captain when CPA was inside the 2 mile 'bubble'. Right of way or not Never ever cross the bow of another ship. We need to start licensing these ring knockers.

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.