An apology to our allies.

[TarJak]

News flash. Spies spy on people including politicians!

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Whatevver. I've had you pegged for a hardliner democrat for a LONG time now. They way I have you figured, when it comes to living in a total democrat utopia, with no guns, no individual rights, and a total herd mentality, I think you'll be the first in line. I half expect you to tell me i need to "evolve". A line that the progressive types use all too often.

Whatever. And I've had YOU pegged as hardliner republican. Yet according to you, Im completely wrong about my presumptions but you're completely right about yours, even though yours include the idea that california is a dystopian oligarchy run by communist liberals whose sole purpose is to oppress the people, and that anyone living here MUST share those same ideals, right?

You make pathetic attempts to try and somehow slander my credibility through what state i live in, but then figure that your credibility couldnt possibly be slandered in a simliar manner because...why? You're somehow above your own deplorable argument? By your own argument, simply your state of residence determines your character and the only things you can believe. So you living in Utah would, by your own argument, be just as much grounds for republican indoctrination as california would be democrat indoctrination. Yet you somehow still do not see the fallacy in your argument and you keep pushing an idea that you consider yourself exempt from because apparently you're just that special.

No. After awhile, i stopped reading carefully, and just started to skim, because I was pretty sure whatever you had to say, I wasn't going to like it. Ever notice how my replies tend to be short and direct?

"Ill just skim over everything you say because i dont agree with it and take statements out of context so i can summarize it into my own words to try and jab at your credibility with fallacies"

You disagree with the democrats? You just stood there and basicaly spouted the democratic obamabot line of how he's trying to help the american people but can't because those evil republicans! That is a load of crock! He's a lying and manipulative bastard.

And you just stand there and basically spout the republican line about how Obama is the biggest evil this country has ever seen, and that they want to ban all guns and oppress and enslave you, and the ACA doesn't benefit any American and we dont need healthcare reform.

But then youre going to try and say that you dont just spout off lines and that youre just such an enlightened individual who HAPPENS to agree with republicans on the majority of issues. But when you accuse me of the same thing and i claim the same disassociation i must be delusional and brainwashed, right?

Maybe you should actually read for once instead of skimming over everything and highlighting whatever you wanted so you can take it out of context.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It's the Democrats and the Obama administration that is pushing for bigger government, with farther reaching authority into our individual lives. It's this current government that is largely influenced by the democrats that is pissing on our enumerated rights, every chance it gets, and not all of it makes the major news outlets. If 1984 is ever going to make that transition from political rhetoric to cold hard reality, i strongly believe it's the democrats and the liberal progressive types that will get us there. So I see the republicans, though they are not guilt free, as the lesser of the two evil's in this regard.

And its the Republicans and the house majority who essentially want pre-depression hands-off government. Pffft, Healthcare reform, who needs THAT? Pfft a liveable retirement income, what a scam. Pffft, corporations screwing over their workers? That doesnt happen. Corporations gambling billions of dollars that wasnt theirs causing economic crisis? What a bunch of finger pointing. What the republicans envision isn't free and fair capitalism, it's "Im at the top, ive gotten mine, so screw you." You want to talk about pissing on rights, what about the right to fair market and my rights as a working consumer?

Neither side is really a lesser evil. They are both terrible extremist options who expect your cooperation with every issue or else you aren't a true team player. Which is why i dont associate with either.

I NEVER said I was a republican. Ever.

Three things I strongly dislike right now is this current government, Obama and California, and I see all three as far left, with one jaunt over to the red with the patriot act. Something from the far right, i freaking hate. To say nothing of the NDAA.

So you claim to adopt the moderate views of both sides, and the fact that you agree with the majority of issues with republicans is coincidence. Yet when i claim the same exact thing, im a liar who is just some robot hardline democrat in denial? Why? Because you say so? Because you know what i believe better than i do?

[TarJak]

Now now kiddies you're both starting to sound like members of Congress. Or is it just members thumping the table?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

given the close ties between the German BND and the NSA, it is hard to believe the Germans themselves did not know the Chancellor's communications were being monitored.

sooooooo..do we now need someone to apologise on behalf of Germany?

Nein!
You're looking at it from the wrong angle: according to our glorious rulers it's ok to spy on their citizens, but not on them.
I wrote something about this in the other thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...9&postcount=25

Afaik Merkel's cell was spied upon with the help of an IMSI catcher, not really a brand new thing, used by German police authorities since many years, especially at demonstrations. That the BND didn't catch the surveillance of Merkel's phone, is just their typical incompetence.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Now now kiddies you're both starting to sound like members of Congress. Or is it just members thumping the table?

Eh, what? I didn't get past the second sentence of that wall of text. The second sentence was enough to see where the rest was going. In any event, I'll resolve this issue right now; by adding that (colorful noun) from the most broken state in America to my ignore list and be done with it. I should have done this months ago. I have no time or patience for his ilk.

I can only think of the scene from a Cheech & Chong movie with Pee Wee Hermin.

I'm sorry!

[CaptainMattJ.]

And i have no patience for people who have the conversational and argumentative skills of a 4 year old. But at least he'll be happy in his own little world and stop throwing his fallacies at me. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

This should get good!

This should get good!

Not really, when ducimus gets stroppy over an argument not working out how he would like, he simply throws his toys out the pram.
There is no one there to pick them up for him and he lacks the ability to pick them up without help
This was a classic example with his own arguments being thrown straight back at him and he could not attack them without destroying his own position, hence the tantrum.

[Catfish]

First, George Orwell was certainly wrong when he wrote "1984". We have learned from it and do now embrace our masters.

Also, from Mr. Alexander:
Our spies "belong to the best people of this nation .. it is a privilege and an honour to work side by side with them."

But are they the best of the best, or really only the best ?
You see, language can be tricky with those superlatives..