Warning Touchy subject: Dambusters dog is now called Digger not Nigga

[Sailor Steve]

We've actually been having this discussion for quite a while.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ght=dambusters. The decision was hardly finalized back then, so I'm not knocking this thread, just having fun with the past.

As for the choice, I'm undecided (not that our opinion matters at this point, or ever did). Platapus made an excellent point about how many other changes are likely. This probably won't be accurate in other ways, so a name change is nothing.

AVGWarhawk's link is an outstanding study of the problems involved.

I don't see a problem with the name, as it was the dog's name, but then it was just a name, and if it bothers people I don't have a problem with changing it either. I would like to say that the filmmakers' concern probably wasn't with 'The PC Crowd', as so many label them, but with overall negative reaction from the filmgoing public, who are their bread and butter. If a small group is going raise a big stink they probably don't care, but if a much larger group is going to take offense they probably just decided it was easier to change than fight.

As I said, I'm undecided.

[nikimcbee]

So what do we feed Stigger? Fish-n-chips? might upset his tummy.

[Oberon]

To be fair, the original film wasn't exactly bang on the mark either. Barnes Wallis didn't have half the problems with the bureaucracy that the film portrayed him having, nor was he the Chief designer of the Wellington bomber like the character says in the film. Neither did Gibson devise the spotlight altimeter, it was suggested to him by a chap in the ministry because of a method Coastal Command had been using for some time (presumably with their Leigh lights).
However much of that is because the film was made only twelve years after the event and a lot of the information (including the shape of the bomb) was still classified.

At the end of the day, the film says that it is 'based on' true events, 'based on', not an 'accurate retelling' which means there are going to be slight changes here and there, just as there was in the original. If that means that people will boycott the film, well, fair enough, but I will give it a chance, Digger or not (and let's face it, the Dogs name was already altered for American audiences in the original film), and if it's another U-571...well...I haven't watched U-571 so I haven't been exposed to that kind of horror.

Anyway, I shall end with a spot of trivia.

...when filming on location at RAF Scampton, where ****** and Gibson were to stroll through a group of RAF men waiting outside of a building for a briefing. The dog could not be persuaded to move off one spot, or even dragged past it on a leash. It later transpired that the spot was the site where the real ****** had been buried, some 11 years before, whose gravestone had been temporarily removed for filming. In the end, the scene was filmed without the dog.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I haven't watched U-571 so I haven't been exposed to that kind of horror.

The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover.

LOL...trust you

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by sober

Yeah ok , quite frankly that word should be washed clean from the worlds history books never to return .

along with all the other racist terminology or just the particular word in question?




just to clarify, because i was under the impression that all racist monikers were equally offensive, not just the one mentioned in the article.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by August

The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover.

You forgot the best line in the whole movie:

Everything is in German.

[TarJak]

Meh! Who cares either way. Go watch the film, eat some popcorn, go home either satisfied or disatisfied with the entertainment as presented. FFS its a movie!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by TarJak

Meh! Who cares either way. Go watch the film, eat some popcorn, go home either satisfied or disatisfied with the entertainment as presented. FFS its a movie!

Fair point

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Platapus

If the only historical inaccuracy in this movie is the dog's name, I will be greatly surprised.

So will I.

But I can't see very well where the real problem is actually. And I'm not for changing the dog's name. Changing it would do no more than making the united states of America's black population think that segregation and racism never existed in the united states army's ranks, which is wrong of course.

The thing is that, during the presence of this army in Europe, Eisenhower himself got to hear about more, and more, and more, and MORE local women complaining of rape by your soldiers, and he decided to put an end to this behaviour from his OWN ARMY by court-martialing GIs responsible for that.

Let's not take murders in consideration here, only the rapes.
Following the 17.000 or 18.000 rapes perpetrated by American soldiers on English, French, and German women (the high majority of them of course), 84% of all American soldiers who got the death sentence were black. Black soldiers represented only 10% of all soldiers enlisted in the American army at the time. Numbers speak well, don't they ?
I'm sure that leaves no doubt how your army made fun while in Europe, nor why some appear not to like you a lot to this day. But feel free to keep up appearances shouting from the rooftops that white American soldiers and ******s have always been equal to each other of course.

God, your fathers must be turning in their grave like a ventilator fan.

[August]

Hey Alex, you do realize that the Dambusters were British right?

So will I....blah blah blabbity blah bleugh

Wow

[MH]

Originally Posted by Alex

So will I.

But I can't see very well where the real problem is actually. And I'm not for changing the dog's name. Changing it would do no more than making the united states of America's black population think that segregation and racism never existed in the united states army's ranks, which is wrong of course.

The thing is that, during the presence of this army in Europe, Eisenhower himself got to hear about more, and more, and more, and MORE local women complaining of rape by your soldiers, and he decided to put an end to this behaviour from his OWN ARMY by court-martialing GIs responsible for that.

Let's not take murders in consideration here, only the rapes.
Following the 17.000 or 18.000 rapes perpetrated by American soldiers on English, French, and German women (the high majority of them of course), 84% of all American soldiers who got the death sentence were black. Black soldiers represented only 10% of all soldiers enlisted in the American army at the time. Numbers speak well, don't they ?
I'm sure that leaves no doubt how your army made fun while in Europe, nor why some appear not to like you a lot to this day. But feel free to keep up appearances shouting from the rooftops that white American soldiers and ******s have always been equal to each other of course.

God, your fathers must be turning in their grave like a ventilator fan.

Good to know that Eisenhower did not encourage this kind of behavior and some got death sentences-harsh treatment isn't it?
I guess Americans have dick too.
On another hand France should had been liberated by Russians there would be less to complain about or maybe you have second thought about liberation at all?

Thanks for those historical facts.
Im actually surprised that it wasn't 80% blacks vs 20% whites.
France has nothing to be proud of as far as ww2.
It used to be complex issue and makes me sort of wonder how history is thought there.

What you wrote still reads like sort typical french cliché....good they let de Gaulle march into Paris or is it?.

[Alex]

@ August : No I didn't.
Yet I've been reading about them at some time in the past.
But today was not a good one for me.
So that was my rant of the day, on the racial subject - it could have been any.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Originally Posted by MH

France has nothing to be proud of as far as ww2.

I'm far from being a fan of the French (no offense Alex) being a stereotypical Brit, but you are so wrong. I'll give you de Gaulle and his government and some of the forces actions were shockingly sh'te, but a lot of French people risked instant death or harsh prison sentences by helping downed airmen and PoWs a route to Spain inc. forged documents, clothing, shelter, food. Assisting SOE airdrops from wireless operations to lighting torches to mark the landing site. Acts of sabotage against German equipment and lines of communication. There are myriad other instances of selflessness and humanity that have never been, nor will ever be told.

So France can be, and should be proud of all it's unsung heroes of WWII.

The rest of them can go to hell.