The Glenn Beck/Goldline Scam (large graphic)

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Fraud is fraud, no matter how you want to explain it away. It should be pointed out.

Thank you for letting us know. But stupid is also stupid. If it sounds too good to be true it probally is. Obama should have teached you that.

[FIREWALL]

If people are stupid they, deserve to be took. Maybe they'll wish they stayed awake in school.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

If people are stupid they, deserve to be took. Maybe they'll wish they stayed awake in school.

Bullpucky. The greater sin is not that someone was gullible, naive or too trusting - the greater sin is taking advantage of people, defrauding and misleading them. That kind of blame the victim attitude is one step away from saying "she was asking to be raped because she was dressed that way."

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Bullpucky. The greater sin is not that someone was gullible, naive or too trusting - the greater sin is taking advantage of people, defrauding and misleading them. That kind of blame the victim attitude is one step away from saying "she was asking to be raped because she was dressed that way."

That's a bit of a strecth, don't you think? People are often motivated to accept deals that are " too good to be true" because they are lazy, stupid, and blinded by greed. That's rather different than rape, which is completely involuntary. I hate fraud as much as you do, it's anathema to libertarians, but there's a difference between being defrauded and defrauding yourself, especially when the intent of the buyer is to defraud the seller. Watch an infomercial. Do you really believe that people who buy those products are motivated by anything other than an irrational belief that they are getting a "great deal" for only $19.99 against a product with a retail value of $99.99 or whatever number they stick up there? How can society ever be responsible for the actions of people who are just as selfish as the people who purportedly take advantage of them? Something doesn't add up there, and the missing element in the equation is self-interest. People are all too ready to blame the self-interest of others for their own misfortune, but when you flip the equation around and put the self-interest of the self-interested before the self-interest of the productive, you end up with a failed industrial or commercial sector. Even then, the self-interest doesn't stop. They demand that others make up for their shortfalls and pay their way, ridiculously, out of some other motivation than self-interest.

Even if the greater sin was to defraud or mislead people who are idiots, which itself makes a kind of social-Darwinist case, what case can you make for people with legislative power whose very existence depends upon defrauding and misleading people by virute of the system in which they are selected? You do realize that in attempting to prevent voluntary and often self-imposed fraud that you are promoting fraud of a greater and legalized nature, right?

If you'll allow me to be frank, I'll posit the idea that you have been mislead and defrauded by people who have a vested self-interest in making people believe that they have been mistreateed in the amazingly consistent goal of forcing others to give them money, through direct or indirect means.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

If people are stupid they, deserve to be took. Maybe they'll wish they stayed awake in school.

Exactly. If you believe in something as stupid as this, then I don't care if you have lost all your money, quite the opposite, I will laugh at your face for being so fricking stupid. Grow some brains, people!

[antikristuseke]

If all women were smart, who would sleep with us?
On a more serious note, I agree with the above two posters, while it is distasteful, it is your own damned faul if you fall for something like this.

[Platapus]

It is difficult to swindle an honest man.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Bullpucky. The greater sin is not that someone was gullible, naive or too trusting - the greater sin is taking advantage of people, defrauding and misleading them. That kind of blame the victim attitude is one step away from saying "she was asking to be raped because she was dressed that way."

Give it a break.

And rape is a ignorant comparison. You dropped the ball on this one.

[mookiemookie]

Undersea-

Still workin on your economics dissertation.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

A decreasing money supply multiplier (velocity or how often $1 is spent) as well as as a plateau in money supply growth :
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This is deflationary as per the quantity theory of money states that M (money supply) x V (velocity) = P (general level of prices) x Y (general level of economic output, or GDP). We'll concern ourselves with the m, v and p, primarily. Now, if you take the general laymans (asking you to go out on a limb with me here, I know) definition of inflation, being a sustained and general increase in prices, then you see how lower velocity can be deflationary. M3 money supply is shrinking, meaning that while there's a boatload of it out there, banks just are not lending it out. A classic liquidity trap. Without money supply reaching the consumer, and velocity shrinking, you'll see that's going to necessarily weigh down GDP and the general level of prices.

tight credit availability

See above

flat wage rates

Wage inflation is the classical harbinger of CPI inflation. (I'm using CPI inflation as shorthand to mean the prices you can go down to any store and observe - not necessarily the CPI index itself, which has been shown to be manipulated and monkeyed with for the last 50 years). Getting back to it - wage inflation is exactly what it sounds like. An increase in the wages workers are taking home. This is very low right now due to the elevated levels of unemployment - times are tough economically, and employers don't have the cash flow to be giving generous raises. Furthermore, workers have no leverage to push for raises - they're easily replaced by someone from the unemployment pool who will do their job at the same wage or cheaper. So without an increase in the dollars being taken home by workers, there can't be an increase in the amount of dollars chasing goods out there.

commodity price decreases - check out the price of lumber since April, for example: http://www.nahb.org/generic.aspx?genericContentID=527

The effects of deflation at work. Lower demand, lower velocity, fewer dollars chasing the same commodities.

a double dip housing recession - worst June on record for new home sales, months of supply on the market creeping back up:

By and large, most American wealth is concentrated in the housing market. Falling home values eat directly into personal wealth. The wealth effect kicks in (or more accurately, drops out.) and consumer confidence is eroded. Seeing as consumer spending on average comprises 2/3rds of GDP, you'll see downward pressure on the Y portion of our formula.

restaurants are reeling -

Another example of deflation at work. In real terms - if you're a restaurant owner fighting to just get customers through the door, you're not going to be raising prices.

Truck tonnage is rolling over. you work in railroads, you should be more aware than I am of the trends in cargo - I imagine you've seen declines lately

Lower economic output from reduced demand and full inventories - if you're a retailer and you can't sell what you've got, you're not ordering more to be delivered.

hotel occupancy is having the worst year since the Great Depression

Same as above.

Check out the retailers comments in the Fed Beige Book reports - all of the anecdotal evidence bodes terrible for retail sales: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...vey-shows.html

Same as above.