[REQ] WWI submarine mod

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

thank you IABL!
I just emailed rondomedia on the off-chance they will allow us to use their models (which i doubt, but it is worth a try).

I will start on a U-cruiser type now
after I post a picture or two of the finished UB before I split the Hull and tower into seperate models.

Bridge helm, as the screenshot provides, might be removed.

Neat !

I have a question though : how do you cut through a mesh (not a solid) to cut away the torpedo doors, then use the cutout part as a door ? Everytime I do that with meshes in 3DS I get weird results... guess it cuts along the polygons not the inserted shape used to do the cutting.

anyways, if we start with a couple subs that's good enough isn't it ?

I have those IJN subs (Sen Toku) to finish off... but I will help with what little time I have.

keltos

[keltos01]

SOF U35 :






Obviously the SOF models have simple models the details come with the texture. and I guess, like in SH4, sometimes very detailed like the 3d plancking on the Typ IX (missing on US subs) sometimes not.

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Originally Posted by keltos01

Neat !

I have a question though : how do you cut through a mesh (not a solid) to cut away the torpedo doors, then use the cutout part as a door ? Everytime I do that with meshes in 3DS I get weird results... guess it cuts along the polygons not the inserted shape used to do the cutting.

anyways, if we start with a couple subs that's good enough isn't it ?

I have those IJN subs (Sen Toku) to finish off... but I will help with what little time I have.

keltos

I use MM3D but I'm sure the things can be replicated in a more complicated 3d program.

1. I take the sub with the tubes I want and I remove the whole sub, leaving the tubes.
-save and exit.
2.When you have the model you want, select the faces you want to use as the torpedo tubes.
-Copy the faces into your clipboard
-before moving on, save your whole sub as a group.
-select your torpedo tube doors, and scale them inward, to the point wheres about a 30cm gap between the faces.
-then paste your doors, which are the exact size and scale of the cutouts you just made
-you can save these and modify your doors later

thats kinda how I do it, I prolly forgot something though

[keltos01]

replied on the narwhal thread, sorry I brought this up in this thread, you can erase your replies in here

keltos

[keltos01]

SH427 :

when you make a sub, do you work with solids, cut merge etc.. then turn to mesh or do you have some other way ?

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

In MM3D My scratchbuilt sub usually starts as a long rectangle. I believe I work with a mesh, which I can preview as a solid, then I can just click back to the mesh and continue editing.
I rarely remove anything from my models and I have a simple copy/paste function to add on what I need. For instance, If I need torpedo tubes, I'll copy a set and then load my model, where I paste them and work with them that way.
MM3D is dirt basic, but it gets the job done. It opens up .objs and I can set texture coordinates easily without much hassle. I cannot Bake AO maps, which is why I have a copy of Blender and 3DS Max standing by to do that. I suggest you download it and give it a try. It'll blow your mind!

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I use MM3D but I'm sure the things can be replicated in a more complicated 3d program.

1. I take the sub with the tubes I want and I remove the whole sub, leaving the tubes.
-save and exit.
2.When you have the model you want, select the faces you want to use as the torpedo tubes.
-Copy the faces into your clipboard
-before moving on, save your whole sub as a group.
-select your torpedo tube doors, and scale them inward, to the point wheres about a 30cm gap between the faces.
-then paste your doors, which are the exact size and scale of the cutouts you just made
-you can save these and modify your doors later

thats kinda how I do it, I prolly forgot something though

Interesting. Maybe something similar can be done in wings3d to make better casemates for ships' guns; so many classes had their guns indented in the hull, and this is probably the hardest feature for me to model.

Thanks again for all of the help!

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

In MM3D My scratchbuilt sub usually starts as a long rectangle. I believe I work with a mesh, which I can preview as a solid, then I can just click back to the mesh and continue editing.
I rarely remove anything from my models and I have a simple copy/paste function to add on what I need. For instance, If I need torpedo tubes, I'll copy a set and then load my model, where I paste them and work with them that way.
MM3D is dirt basic, but it gets the job done. It opens up .objs and I can set texture coordinates easily without much hassle. I cannot Bake AO maps, which is why I have a copy of Blender and 3DS Max standing by to do that. I suggest you download it and give it a try. It'll blow your mind!

blow my mind

dl misfit 1.2.4 now, we'll see how easy it is....

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Interesting. Maybe something similar can be done in wings3d to make better casemates for ships' guns; so many classes had their guns indented in the hull, and this is probably the hardest feature for me to model.

Thanks again for all of the help!

No problem, Being a WWI buff, I couldn't pass this opportunity up!
I have an idea for the casemates. I'll have to see if I can pull it off

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by keltos01

I've made quite a few playable subs so far

Are there any screenshots of your work somewhere ?

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

Subs of what nations ?

so you saw Morgenrot ? do you know if there are any subtitles outthere ? I speak some german, but not enough...

Yes I purchased it once on VHS. Dunno about subtitles though.

I can surely can come up with the other one.

Originally Posted by keltos01

what was the option you'd have preferred then ?

Starting my own project! It's the only real option, imo. You surely have noticed that I run my own project, don't you ?:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/

and they had to stop the engines to use them..

Yeah and heaved down on a rope. Btw do you have any info on this stuff ?

maybe make the guns visible at very short range only ?

How can you achieve that ?

they closed off the north sea between Norway and Scotland with mines...

They closed pretty much all relevant waters. With time, sea storms riped of more and more mines from their anchor chains and they were drifting all around making it hazardous to pass even the "cleared" passages.

what are those ?

The mine fields ?

Late into the war britain installed a new mine field that was organized in clusters and hydrophone chains all along the straight of dover barrage, with hydrophones the position of a passing u-boat would be approximated via some sort of triangulation and when it is within one of the mine cluster, this cluster would be blown up.

The mines would be ignited electrically via cables that connected the mine field chunks with the control station on land.

After this system was installed almost the entire flandern flotilla was eradicated this way within a month.

Similar heavy losses occured in the med I think after new hydrophone systems were introduce by the allies( overall getting out of and back into the home waters became an art ). The problem became so urgent that the germans saw themself forced to seriously apply quieting to their boats. By the end of the war numerous measures were taken to reduce the noise signature and before each patrol the boats would undergo listening tests to make sure the standards are met.

Quieting became a native design specification for any new design while older boats had to be modified and upgraded with various quieting measures.

Overall the later designs were significant quiter than the old noismakers where you couldn't even use the hydrophones in any meaningfull way without shutting down all engines.

late war then.

I think the drifters were not that late into the war. There would be innocently looking sail boats or something that are in reality equiped with hydrophones listening for u-boat propellers at night or something.

Also listening was practiced by simple press the ear on the hull wall below the water line.

you sure did your research!

Hell yes! I made a dedicated study for several years, initially. I got a lot of rare insights and by now I am specialized in this subject. But there is still so much I need to learn more about. Finding out so much became an obligation to create a game from it. The result of my researches only fostered my decission to develop my own game.

I perhaps spent more time with research and design than with development, lol. Now I have to study even more. I thought coding would be enough, but now I am ending up to study math, physics, fluid dynamics, ship dynamics, maneuvering, nautics, all sorts of propulsion systems and pretty much the entire technology paletty going into a ship and coastile navigational installations and then some

Holly crap, but the result is a sim with the quality of a study sim and that with WWI u-boats. ( and now even ships ) Care for a little taste?

Researching german u-boats is incredebly tedious, since most documentation was destroyed by the end of the war and a lot of what remained was stolen by the allies. It's much like collating fragments that have survived here and there. I feel like a paleontologist trying to reconstruct long gone dinos from skeletal fragments.

There are too many gaps especially when it comes down to interiour documentation. Hence I have to study the underlaying engineering to close as many of them as possible. But I am reaching the point where I can make a decent recreation.

that's gonna be hard to implement in SH4... how do you search ships ???

Does SH even have any goods classification ? I remember there was some basic distinction like ammo, fuel and something else in SHIII ? But what effect did this actually have on the game ?

yeah but still, Die Schalen der Zorns isn't that bad, just looks awful...

Oh yeah, SOF certainly has its merrits that I enjoyed to play. The fact alone that it is WWI makes a difference for me already. SOF was good to wetten the appetite so to speak but I guess it is time to move on now and pull out something real.

who will write the campaign layers ?

Dunno, I am not involved in this mod.

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I remember reading that the only defense they (the brits) had for scapa flow was a bunch of enlisted in rowboats with hammers, when spotting a german periscope, they would row over and smash the periscope until it disappeared

Lol, never heared about that but I think the brits cam up with a special ammo to shoot at submerged subs. Didn't worked out of course

The germans would actually play pranks on them by dropping buoys in british coastile waters that look like a periscope, just for the thrill

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

And Deamon, my mod's intended to be an approximation of WWI warfare within the limitations of SH4.

Sure thing, mate, go ahead. I am always curious what you can pull out

However, some crucial features definitely will be included. Q-ships are in, as are mine barrages.

I am wondering how you want to make the Q-Ships hide their weapons untill the last moment and then drop the camouflage ? Is there any native support for this kind of features in SHIV ?

I have thought of a way to implement contraband searching for merchants, thanks to the excellent S3ditor v 9.9 - this is being tested at the moment.

I am wondering how this is supposed to work out.

For a detailed WWI sub sim we'll have to wait for your mod (which I want now - badly - but that's another story!) Thanks for your comments.

Errm, mod ?

[Sledgehammer427]

there was a Q-ship in sh3, it was done by merely adding guns (small guns, like 3 inchers) inside the cargo boxes. of course, I have no idea how it was done, though.

Deamon, the Narwhal contest thread shows some of Keltos's 3d work, I did the initial 3d editing, then he took and made everything I did better, as usual
The Japanese Submarines are his. and I an suffering from a brain fart.


any chance you can let us use your 3d models?

just kidding...kinda...

[keltos01]

@Daemon : my project : The IJN Jyunsen B mod (version 3.7 released, 3.9.3 current)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137761

keltos

[iambecomelife]

Meant to say game, not mod.

And trust me - I have thought of a way to implement the contraband system; I have begun preliminary tests.

I already made a Q-Ship for SH3. The ship was pretty much an average-looking freighter with the .zon file adjusted to represent it being full of empty drums etc to make it harder to sink. It had a bunch of 4.7" guns concealed behind packing crates and ended up being a nasty surprise for several players. Once you blew up the packing crates you could see the guns.

Making one for SH4 should be no problem - except that I want to add the following things:

-A node to spawn a "panic party" boat

-A short range deck gun so that the Q-ship only fires at close range

-A bomb thrower, which I saw in a WWI photo of a Q-ship & its crew.

I already know how to clone objects so it should be quite easy, except for the "panic party" boat which I have not yet tried.

[iambecomelife]

QUOTE: Late into the war britain installed a new mine field that was organized in clusters and hydrophone chains all along the straight of dover barrage, with hydrophones the position of a passing u-boat would be approximated via some sort of triangulation and when it is within one of the mine cluster, this cluster would be blown up.

The mines would be ignited electrically via cables that connected the mine field chunks with the control station on land.

After this system was installed almost the entire flandern flotilla was eradicated this way within a month.

Hydrophones should be possible in SH4 - just take an existing shore fixture model, delete it, and add sensors. SH3/4 vessels have sensors (including hydrophones) and a "radio" that they use to transmit SOS. In fact I once got sunk after a merchantman I was sinking used its radio to call for a nearby armed trawler, which in turn radioed a destroyer. Hence, hydrophone arrays can be tweaked to "launch" mine(s) or summon escorts, which will simulate hydrophone listeners contacting the Admiralty.

Same with mine clusters - mod the existing mines' 3d model, damage effect, & zon file to represent more than one mine going off.

[Sledgehammer427]

IABL, I would like to officially join you as part of this mod team. After reading the preview .doc you sent me via PM, I would like to throw as much in as I can (since I am also working on the Surface Warfare Mod, and the Narwhal.)