So it begins....for Obama

[AntEater]

Actually I've had quite a good idea what to do with Poland:
The US could remove the missiles, and send ground troops instead, maybe an armoured division or so.
Maybe the remaining army forces in Germany.
This would have benefits for all involved:
- Russia feels threatened by the missile shield, but does not need to fear a few Abrams rumbling through the middle of polish nowhere. You can't march on Moscow with a division.
- Russia's "Stong!11!!" faction like Zhirinovsky could ramble endlessly how quickly Russia could wipe out these troops
- Russian army would have some justification for new toys
- Poland would actually have some genuine US protection instead of just installing a few bull's eyes on their territory
- Polish army would benefit from training
- GIs could enjoy polish vodka, girls and cuisine (ok, maybe not )
- rural polish communities would benefit from development like german rural communities did in the cold war

So, everyone's a winner

[MothBalls]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Actually I've had quite a good idea what to do with Poland:
The US could remove the missiles, and send ground troops instead, maybe an armoured division or so.
So, everyone's a winner

Except me, an American taxpayer who has to pay for that division.

I still say we pull out of everywhere and only respond when asked by the UN.

When asking, please wire transfer the funds in advance or include an American Express card number. We'll give you a variety of billing options. Per troop, bomb, casualty, or a one time fee to accomplish a specific goal.

Originally Posted by AntEater

Actually I've had quite a good idea what to do with Poland:
The US could remove the missiles, and send ground troops instead, maybe an armoured division or so.
Maybe the remaining army forces in Germany.
This would have benefits for all involved:
- Russia feels threatened by the missile shield, but does not need to fear a few Abrams rumbling through the middle of polish nowhere. You can't march on Moscow with a division.
- Russia's "Stong!11!!" faction like Zhirinovsky could ramble endlessly how quickly Russia could wipe out these troops
- Russian army would have some justification for new toys
- Poland would actually have some genuine US protection instead of just installing a few bull's eyes on their territory
- Polish army would benefit from training
- GIs could enjoy polish vodka, girls and cuisine (ok, maybe not )
- rural polish communities would benefit from development like german rural communities did in the cold war

So, everyone's a winner

One problem with that. The US can't justify their deployment of troops into Poland with a North Korean or Iranian threat. They'd have to develop some very convincing reasons first, else the whole game will repeat.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

NATO is not a part of our Constitution. And Russia need not go to war to exert alot of influence and pressure over your security and economic interests. I don't believe an Obama administration will do anything on your behalf.

I know NATO is not a part of you constitution - if it were, we would be a part of the US. My point is, that you DO have obligations to defend us.

[Christopher Snow]

Originally Posted by McBeck

I know NATO is not a part of you constitution - if it were, we would be a part of the US. My point is, that you DO have obligations to defend us.

I wouldn't count on it.

You should make backup plans, just in case we decide we DON'T have any such obligations.


CS

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

I wouldn't count on it.

You should make backup plans, just in case we decide we DON'T have any such obligations.


CS

Actully I dont count on it, Im just pointing out that there ARE obligations. Weather or not the US choose to honor those obligations is a whole other matter.

[Christopher Snow]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Actully I dont count on it, Im just pointing out that there ARE obligations. Weather or not the US choose to honor those obligations is a whole other matter.

Ok, Fair enough.

Consider also (and this would have been true regardless of which nominee were elected) the US might simply not be ABLE to fufill it's supposed obligations to support you, in any case..

A more frightening^...but perhaps even more realistic...thought.

In my view, we probably CAN'T help you, regardless of what the Russians decide to do, in any case. We are simply stretched too thin now (and as of Tuesday, I suspect morale among our forces has gone right off the deep end).

[I would be surprised if one in twenty members of our armed forces were still seriously considering re-enlistment just three days later.]

I don't think we can help you using conventional forces in any case--our military personnel are now so discouraged (I do suspect we'll see them leaving in droves in the very near future), that it will necessary to implement a military draft, very soon now, just in order to support even our present levels of force strengths (and these meager levels are still probably inadequate to support you, if it comes to a need for significant defence any time in the near future).

In our case, we can still fall back onto that "civilian militia" as a final backup, should the **** hit the fan over here.

But that won't help you any over there.


CS

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Ok, Fair enough.

Consider also (and this would have been true regardless of which nominee were elected) the US might not be ABLE to fufill it's supposed obligations.

A more frightening...and perhaps even more realistic...thought.


CS

Granted - thats true and if we turn the plates the oposite could be true too.
In my book, what counts is what you choose to do and that is based on what options you have.

[Christopher Snow]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Granted - thats true and if we turn the plates the oposite could be true too.
In my book, what counts is what you choose to do and that is based on what options you have.

Well, I doubt that anyone in the US has really ever entertained the idea that the plates could be turned the opposite way (and then see the rest of NATO step up to defend US, instead of the other way round).

That sort of fantasy was never more than a mere pipe-dream, and i seriously doubt if even a left-wing Democrat over here would have ever expected to see it happen in real-life.

So I do agree that what counts is what WE choose to do if we are called upon to defend you (and not what you...or the rest of the EU...might have done had it been you who were called upon to stand beside, and in support of US).

<cough 9-11 cough>

When it happens, I guess we will all find out.


CS

It already DID happen. Remember 911? The NATO defense case was called out back then. Why do you think are german and other european troops deployed in Afghanistan, eh? Fairy tale my a**. You guys are so rightous you completly ignore what is going on. It was Europe coming to your aid there, big time. You only ruined it with your attack on Iraq and the completle Ignorance from Bush towards the world. "if you are not with us you are against us" is not a way to maintain friendships. And now you dare to say "yeah, sorry, we won't help you?" in case of an emergency, no matter how unlikely is?

Sorry, if that is the attitude of most americans, then I have zero problems with you guys going into mole mode and never come back. It just underlines the impression the US made the last couple years. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME the rest go to hell!
Luckily your polititians now are smarter then this.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Sorry, if that is the attitude of most americans, then I have zero problems with you guys going into mole mode and never come back. It just underlines the impression the US made the last couple years. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME the rest go to hell!Luckily your polititians now are smarter then this.

Don't mind poor Christopher. He's in a bad way. I don't think he's left the bomb shelter since the election. You must know, we in Amerika can only hope that there will still be a sky when we we look up come January now that that Al-Qaeda infiltrator made it into office. Gawd, it hasn't been this bad since the Soviets managed to get Agent Carterovich in back in '77. Or has it? I read on the Interwebs the other day Slick Willy was probably a ChiCom agent who had underwent a dangerous plastic surgery before his insertion.



PD

Disclaimer: Sorry if I offended anybody. Serious political postings just aren't as much fun.

[McBeck]

Originally Posted by Christopher Snow

Well, I doubt that anyone in the US has really ever entertained the idea that the plates could be turned the opposite way (and then see the rest of NATO step up to defend US, instead of the other way round).

That sort of fantasy was never more than a mere pipe-dream, and i seriously doubt if even a left-wing Democrat over here would have ever expected to see it happen in real-life.

So I do agree that what counts is what WE choose to do if we are called upon to defend you (and not what you...or the rest of the EU...might have done had it been you who were called upon to stand beside, and in support of US).

<cough 9-11 cough>

When it happens, I guess we will all find out.


CS

Did you know that Denmark is a terrorist target now because of our support to you in Afghanistan and Iraq? We, and alot of other european countries, have supported you to the best of our abillities because of 9/11!!
You better step up if called upon! We have recently proved that we can/will...

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

Don't mind poor Christopher. He's in a bad way. I don't think he's left the bomb shelter since the election. You must know, we in Amerika can only hope that there will still be a sky when we we look up come January now that that Al-Qaeda infiltrator made it into office. Gawd, it hasn't been this bad since the Soviets managed to get Agent Carterovich in back in '77. Or has it? I read on the Interwebs the other day Slick Willy was probably a ChiCom agent who had underwent a dangerous plastic surgery before his insertion.



PD

Disclaimer: Sorry if I offended anybody. Serious political postings just aren't as much fun.

*lol* kay, touché. but darn, why must it always "these" kind of ppl beeing the most vocal ones and thus making up most of the impressions of one country?

[August]

Originally Posted by McBeck

Did you know that Denmark is a terrorist target now because of our support to you in Afghanistan and Iraq? We, and alot of other european countries, have supported you to the best of our abillities because of 9/11!!
You better step up if called upon! We have recently proved that we can/will...

Oh c'mon, you're saying that your newspapers published those anti-muhammed cartoons in support of our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq?

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by August

Oh c'mon, you're saying that your newspapers published those anti-muhammed cartoons in support of our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Sorry but hasn't Denmark sent troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan? Wouldn't he be referring to that mentioned support for the US post 9/11 rather than what you have suggested?