Berkley and the Marines

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

I joined the Army at 17 quitting high school to do so. My dad joined at 16 using a fake birth certificate. Not too much going on in depression era Indiana i guess.

But in spite of all this never would i look down on someone just because they haven't served, not if they are a Patriot at heart...

All can serve in their own capacity. I spend all day moving AAE from base to base with my trucks. Helicopter blades to Iraq, etc. Need to keep the troops supplied. Heck, I even help out the Belgium military from time to time. I'm almost 43 and I suspect after a hernia and three collapsed lungs (not all at once) I'm not really recruiting material.

[bradclark1]

I joined at 17 but was told I couldn't go to Vietnam until I was 18. During the draw down anyway. Somethings changed. I think it should have been kept at 18. You can't even legally smoke at 17.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

You certainly have no problem with bigotry against our military.

There is not one comment in this thread or even this forum that I'm aware of that disrespects those in our military.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

There is not one comment in this thread or even this forum that I'm aware of that disrespects those in our military.

No. You just coddle and "protect" those that are bigoted towards them. Same thing. Bigotry is not only begotten in words, but deeds or intent as well. And you seem to have problems with those that seek to protect the honor and integrity of those recruiters who work so hard to keep our military staffed. But anyway, quit trolling for arguments.

Originally Posted by August

But in spite of all this never would i look down on someone just because they haven't served, not if they are a Patriot at heart...

Me neither. I've never thought that the "chickenhawk" argument ever made much sense. To me it's simply a tool that anti-war/anti-military bigots use to try and shutdown voices in support of our military during wartime. Nothing more. If you are a taxpayer, even if you've never served, you've still got a voice, a vested interest in the outcome, and can be free to speak your mind in support of decisive military action.

[bradclark1]

Your of course trying to set your argument differently now.

Feel free to point where I'm changing anything I've said.

I don't understand your need to argue the point like you're doing.

"In fact I'm trying to understand why you seem insensed over it. You don't think they target rural America? " They do but it's not immoral. I don't believe anybody has said thats all the military will take. Heres a link that sttles it anyway. A majority of recruits are from low to middle-median household incomes. Shows a serious dip from 2004 for high income. Actually the whole thing is no real suprise.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/gr...recruiting2007
This is recruit by state. On the right are links to other recruiting data.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/ta...recruiting2007

No you don't. You trash threads because you don't allow for opinion that differs from yours. In fact, the insults always start from your direction. The dialogue always begins from you as well. Seems like you want to spout, and allow no rebuttal. You give rudeness, and are shocked when you get some back at you. Grow up. I would say I got it right when I see what ails you in complex. You simply cannot enter a thread where I am and allow a different opinion, and then you cry. You're too much.

Show me a comment where I trash for a different opinion thats put across?
Lets look at this thread.

The problem is SH, you came into my country, and you began listening to left-wing Democrats about the nature of this country. Along the way, you have been made to believe the stupidity of Democrat activists. I find it sad that there are foreign people who come into the USA for whatever reason, and waste their time believing the false ideas and spin driven by America hating leftists. It's a shame really. The above youtube clip is from a parody item that relates to military recruiters changing requirements to meet current goals. It's brought to you by a spinning lefty who has an agenda against fox news. Nothing more than that really.

This is my reaction to it.

You are one sick puppy Sea Demon. Believe it or not not everyone is a Democrat or Republican. You can be left or right leaning and still not be either. I know thats hard for you to grasp but try it. Try not to insult people just because they disagree with you. Everything is not of a political bent in life. Stealth Hunter has been through what you obviously haven't and have no concept of so give him the respect he is due.

Same goes for you. As a matter of fact, I would recommend you go to the section where the "ignore" button is and put me on it. You're the very last thing on my mind when I type something, very inconsequential, and only notice you when you come in to a topic like a hurricane on a mission. Since you can't handle it, this is what I suggest to you. I don't need to put you on an ignore list, because I can handle a point of view that differs from mine. I see many statements you make that I can address, but choose not to because you can't handle it. That's why it's always you that starts these things.

Right. The "The problem is SH" comment above really shows that you can take a difference of opinion.

The bigotry I've seen in you is quite remarkable as well. You are also a troublemaker as you cannot enter a thread where there is differing opinion, without turning it into a mission for you. You have disproven your last statement very well by your prior actions. But of course, you are the type that cannot see your own faults. That is obvious.

I'll tell you what. Us two biogots talk nice then we won't have a problem will we?

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

No. You just coddle and "protect" those that are bigoted towards them. Same thing. Bigotry is not only begotten in words, but deeds or intent as well. And you seem to have problems with those that seek to protect the honor and integrity of those recruiters who work so hard to keep our military staffed. But anyway, quit trolling for arguments.

I'll say it again. There is not one comment in this thread or even this forum that I'm aware of that disrespects those in our military. Is it that hard to understand? You have a problem with people with differing views. Now you are trying to say I'm protecting people who haven't even said what you accuse these mystery people of saying. Where are recruiters honor and integrity being questioned? Because they target the less affluent? Of course they do. That's where the majority of our manpower comes from. Not a big secret. Because he doesn't think they should recruit in schools because they are too young? He's intitled to his opinion just like you are. Does that give you the right to call someone an ignorant foreigner? No it doesn't.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

I'll say it again. There is not one comment in this thread or even this forum that I'm aware of that disrespects those in our military. Is it that hard to understand? You have a problem with people with differing views. Now you are trying to say I'm protecting people who haven't even said what you accuse these mystery people of saying. Where are recruiters honor and integrity being questioned? Because they target the less affluent? Of course they do. That's where the majority of our manpower comes from. Not a big secret. Because he doesn't think they should recruit in schools because they are too young? He's intitled to his opinion just like you are. Does that give you the right to call someone an ignorant foreigner? No it doesn't.

Stop trolling for an argument bradclark1. And you are either oblivious, or patently dishonest. You came into this thread in a hostile, name-calling manner, and were objecting to a point of view that did not allow the false assertions that the military seems to target only poor people in less affluent areas. You are also seemingly, yet with less vigor trying to assert something similar. Another objection I had was when SH made the illogical claims that underage kids are being preyed on by recruiters. With no evidence to support that. Don't tell me you believe that crap. Well maybe you do. I mean, after all, his nephews got it on tape. Those recruiters are sick in that guys eyes. He even said so in no uncertain terms.

And according to you, there is no comment on this thread that disrespects our military, hmmm? Well, Mr. SH referred to US military recruiters as "those bastards". But that doesn't seem to bother you does it? Or it's not worthy of your consideration. Maybe you think he's accurate. Who knows? This is actually what he said:

Originally Posted by StealthHunter

Nobody ever joins, of course, but those bastards try and trick them into joining (acting friendly, joking with the kids, you get the picture). Really pisses me off.

Isn't that sweet? Since you defended him so vigorously and continue to do so, I'll take that as a resounding yes. Especially considering you didn't seem to have a problem with it when he said it. Instead you attack the guy defending the honor of military recruiters. Don't look for adoration when doing that. Oh, and when did I call him an ignorant foreigner? I just can't seem to find the quote.

You are ticked because somebody will go to bat for these hardworking people with a difficult task to do. And that's recruit for our military in a hostile environment that is driven by false illogical emotions. You also got mad because I may have been insensitive. Or I sounded mean. Get over yourself brad. You're not the grand protector of right and wrong. Nor are you the judge of good speech, or hostile speech. Especially since you disqualify yourself with your own smart-a%% comments. And your own illogical backpeddling. The funny thing was, you didn't seem to give SH any grief when he made some very snide comments to me. He started it with me by calling me "hot-shot" in a very condescending manner. That guy not only defamed US military recruiters, he proceeds to insult me. That's pretty much the root of it. I guess you didn't read any of those parts though did you? Nor would you want to. Perhaps in your mind, he and others who insult the military should have carte blanche. But anyway, that's where my own shots across the bow came from towards him. And perhaps, he should have expected it. And so should you with your little grandstanding episodes, and feeble insults.

And then you appear with your little complex, and chest beating (Defending someone who openly trashes US military recruiters) and now assign yourself the position of arbiter of speech on the forum. Do you realize how comical that is? It's funny as hell. Just like every single Global Warming thread you've gone psycho on. Simply put, if you can't handle it, don't come around in attack mode. You threw the first shot at me, as usual, and then are taken aback when there is a rebuttal. Unreal. Bottom line though, and you better listen good. I will not allow somebody to falsely diminish the roles of our military recruiters or say demeaning things about them that are untrue. They have a very difficult mission to fulfill. You seemingly don't give a crap, but now you pretend that it's an issue for you. And you really do care. If you did care, I'm sure you wouldn't have allowed somebody to slander these recruiters and the work they do. And instead go the other direction. You are a fraud. Simply put. Otherwise perhaps you would have seen another angle instead of just coming into this thread like you do. But I'm starting to think you live for trolling this forum. Give it up. You are getting nowhere. And you just can't backpeddle like you think you can. You have not shown any support for our people in uniform here, and have been on the side that marginalizes them. You have given the perception of yourself, but are left unable to redefine it. And I find it hilarious.

[bradclark1]

Stop trolling for an argument bradclark1. And you are either oblivious, or patently dishonest. You came into this thread in a hostile, name-calling manner, and were objecting to a point of view that did not allow the false assertions that the military seems to target only poor people in less affluent areas.

Nobody but you says they target only poor people in less affluent areas. He said they are targeted. No only to it. You seem to agree. Why the flip flop Sea Demon?

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peto
I didn't say they were shipping them off. I said they're being targeted.

Of course they are? So what? This is how it's always been.

Can't make up your mind? My daughter started receiving phone calls from recruiters at 16. I don't see anything wrong with that but he does. I don't agree with him but he has that right. Those graphs show where a majority of our men and women come from. What groups are larger? It shouldn't be any surprise and it's probably the same in most countries that rely on a volunteer voice.

And according to you, there is no comment on this thread that disrespects our military, hmmm? Well, Mr. SH referred to US military recruiters as "those bastards". But that doesn't seem to bother you does it? Or it's not worthy of your consideration. Maybe you think he's accurate. Who knows? This is actually what he said:

And he followed it up with

Indeed we do. The war is on, and it will be on for quite a while, I'd imagine, and I will henceforth give my regards and support to the men fighting in it. However, I will not support a government that wishes to continue the war.

Instead you attack the guy defending the honor of military recruiters. Don't look for adoration when doing that. Oh, and when did I call him an ignorant foreigner? I just can't seem to find the quote.

Here it is.

The problem is SH, you came into my country, and you began listening to left-wing Democrats about the nature of this country. Along the way, you have been made to believe the stupidity of Democrat activists. I find it sad that there are foreign people who come into the USA for whatever reason, and waste their time believing the false ideas and spin driven by America hating leftists. It's a shame really. The above youtube clip is from a parody item that relates to military recruiters changing requirements to meet current goals. It's brought to you by a spinning lefty who has an agenda against fox news. Nothing more than that really.

And here is my reaction to it.

You are one sick puppy Sea Demon. Believe it or not not everyone is a Democrat or Republican. You can be left or right leaning and still not be either. I know thats hard for you to grasp but try it. Try not to insult people just because they disagree with you. Everything is not of a political bent in life. Stealth Hunter has been through what you obviously haven't and have no concept of so give him the respect he is due.

Get over yourself brad. You're not the grand protector of right and wrong. Nor are you the judge of good speech, or hostile speech. Especially since you disqualify yourself with your own smart-a%% comments.

No I'm not but if I see you being insulting or belittling to someone I'll step in every time.
Does this seem the comments of a rational person? I think not.

I've been to several protests to laugh at the kooks there. I've even had one of the "Black Bloc" activists threaten me with physical violence. Of course I laughed in his face. Trust me, these people are Democrat activists and socio-paths of many varieties. And liberals of varying intensities. But they are indeed liberals in the modern sense.

He started it with me by calling me "hot-shot" in a very condescending manner. That guy not only defamed US military recruiters, he proceeds to insult me.

I wouldn't call that patronizing or superior. read the whole paragraph.

Let me tell you something, hot-shot, war is not a game. If you're so damn ready to head off into the breach, then be my guest. I'm not going to stop you. But let me tell you this, when you go and when you see the bodies, when you smell the blood and the rotting flesh, when you feel the heat from an explosion or the cold sensation of wet blood, then you're not going to feel so gung-ho anymore. When you watch your best friend lose his head to a grenade, you'll understand. When you have bullets aimed at YOU, you'll understand.

And so should you with your little grandstanding episodes, and feeble insults.

You like to fight and get insulting when people don't bow to your opinion. I like to fight you when you do. If you would treat your opponent with any respect you wouldn't hear a word from me regarding your manner. It would just be subject matter.
Try it.

Bottom line though, and you better listen good. I will not allow somebody to falsely diminish the roles of our military recruiters or say demeaning things about them that are untrue. They have a very difficult mission to fulfill. You seemingly don't give a crap, but now you pretend that it's an issue for you.

Funny, I don't remember me diminishing the rolls of recruiters. I remember saying a few times I don't see anything wrong in recruiters tactics. I have though said the SH is entitled to his opinion. Perhaps you can show me. You can't though can you?

You are a fraud. Simply put. Otherwise perhaps you would have seen another angle instead of just coming into this thread like you do.

Like I do? I seem to remember being pretty on topic until the last paragraph where I called you on your personal comments. If you don't like it, treat people with respect then I won't have a reason to call you on it.

You are getting nowhere. And you just can't backpeddle like you think you can.

Show me where I backpedal on anything. You are letting your imagination run rampant again.

You have not shown any support for our people in uniform here, and have been on the side that marginalizes them. You have given the perception of yourself, but are left unable to redefine it. And I find it hilarious.

I listen to the vets at the hospital and give them a nonjudgmental ear. I'll shake their hand and and give them my thanks. I'll buy them a burger. Give them smokes if they are out and I drop soda off at the psych ward. What do you do besides run your mouth?

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Nobody but you says they target only poor people in less affluent areas. He said they are targeted. No only to it. You seem to agree. Why the flip flop Can't make up your mind? My daughter started receiving phone calls from recruiters at 16. I don't see anything wrong with that but he does. I don't agree with him but he has that right. Those graphs show where a majority of our men and women come from. What groups are larger? It shouldn't be any surprise and it's probably the same in most countries that rely on a volunteer voice.

Is there anything wrong with providing these kids with career choices? If not what's your problem? The military is a volunteer force. Nobody is forced to join. And these recruiters have a job to do. SH has a right to speak ill of them, and you have a right to protect those who seek to damage the honor of our military people. But I have a right to fire back. And I will. Get over yourself.

What a fraud you are brad. So SH can say what he wants and gets a free pass at the end of it all. Like I said, he probably said things that got you moist. And you cannot now come back and pretend you're this big advocate of military personnel including those that recruit. You have been shown to be inconsistent, a backpeddler, a supporter of those who denigrate our military people, and now intellectually dishonest. And there's nothing you can do to clean that up other than to admit your errors. But of course you could never do that...could you?!?

SH said some remarkably bad things about US military recruiters. He only decided to backpeddle himself once he saw that he wasn't going to get away with it wholesale. Learn a lesson from that. Because you will get no free ride yourself. If you lump yourself in with that group, and attack those who seek to fight for the honor of our recruiters, you have only yourself to blame when it doesn't go right for you and not everyone is throwing roses at your feet.

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Instead you attack the guy defending the honor of military recruiters. Don't look for adoration when doing that. Oh, and when did I call him an ignorant foreigner? I just can't seem to find the quote.

Here it is.

The problem is SH, you came into my country, and you began listening to left-wing Democrats about the nature of this country. Along the way, you have been made to believe the stupidity of Democrat activists. I find it sad that there are foreign people who come into the USA for whatever reason, and waste their time believing the false ideas and spin driven by America hating leftists. It's a shame really. The above youtube clip is from a parody item that relates to military recruiters changing requirements to meet current goals. It's brought to you by a spinning lefty who has an agenda against fox news. Nothing more than that really.

And here is my reaction to it.

You are one sick puppy Sea Demon. blah...blah...blah...spin...spin...spin

I still don't see "ignorant foreigner" anywhere in there. Perhaps in your looney mind, it's there. But the paragraph just doesn't show it to those of us in the real world. And my reaction was to him calling our recruiters "Bastards". I guess you didn't want somebody to challenge that assertion. That's what I see. Otherwise you wouldn't have got your little knickers in a bunch and decided to attack someone who seeks to defend the honor of the recruiter. And I know exactly where this type of dialogue usually comes from. You hate it pointed out, but it's the truth. And it will always be pointed out. Democrat activists use this language, and most people know it. You simply cannot blur that or pretend the opposite is true. I'm sure your next diatribe will attempt it. But you look dumber trying to clean up that fact. It just doesn't mesh in the real world. You see, we've seen even members of the failed Democrat Congress say very demeaning things about the military. John Murtha saying our soldiers were killing civilians in cold blood. I'm sure SH saw that and said "yeah, they are murderers!" Maybe you did as well. What about Dick Durbin comparing them to Nazi's? Maybe you and SH had a jolly good time with that one, didn't you? It's not hard to see where some of these emotionally based false assertions against military recruiters come from. Too bad you can't handle it. It's not just my opinion, but many people see the same thing. It's in the words. But of course you have no trouble with an ad hominem attack from that direction, do you?!? That's where your little argument about "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" falls on it's face.

No I'm not but if I see you being insulting or belittling to someone I'll step in every time.

Please do. You look the fool for it, considering I was defending military recruiters who were attacked ad hominem by someone who doesn't even understand them. You apparently don't care about military recruiters or their mission. You care that somebody's talking mean. What immature hogwash. But that's your right. I would at least recommend you look at what these recruiters really do, how they do it, and the challenges they face in doing it. You and SH are cruel, and are the type that destroy what these recruiters try to do. BTW, where were you when SH was insulting or belittling to not only myself, but to military recruiters? He started it, not me. And how about your own insulting behavior? I did not respond or say anything to you. You as usual trolled the forum for a fight. And you got one. And now, you can't just wiggle out of it and save face. As usual, you look like an immature brat that can't influence people to think like you. And now you put yourself into a position of helping to marginalize US military recruiters. You as usual started insults my way, but complain that I was defending recruiters in a mean way, against someone who called them "bastards" and said he was sickened by them. This is too funny dude. You're even stunned that someone would make rebuttals to your own insults.

Funny, I don't remember me diminishing the rolls of recruiters. I remember saying a few times I don't see anything wrong in recruiters tactics. I have though said the SH is entitled to his opinion. Perhaps you can show me. You can't though can you?

No, you simply coddle and protect those that diminish the roles of recruiters. And attack those that are in the process of defending their role and mission. That's the same thing. Like I said, your bigotry against our military is not in the form of words, it's in deeds.

Show me where I backpedal on anything. You are letting your imagination run rampant again.

By insisting that now, you're this great advocate of military people, while you're doing everything in your power to help those that diminish or marginalize their mission. Not only do you backpedal. You now amazingly insist, that you're just doing it because you're against mean people who use insulting language. But you look like a complete moron, because you do not address the origins of this whole thing. And that's SH attacking me wholesale, and then attacking military recruiters and calling them "Bastards". You look the fool because not only did SH attack me first, but so did you, and you complain because I make a comeback. That's priceless comedy. I guess in your eyes, military recruiters deserve to be lied about, and their mission completely crapped on. And nobody is supposed to prove that erroneous. You can't twist it your way, although you can continue to try. It really is amusing.

I listen to the vets at the hospital and give them a nonjudgmental ear. I'll shake their and and give them my thanks. I'll buy them a burger. Give them smokes if they are out and I drop soda off at the psych ward. What do you do besides run your mouth?

Yeah, every one of you that denigrates our military is a medal of honor winner, who personally carries the weight of all servicemen. You listen to vets, buy them burgers, and behind their backs defend people who marginalize their recruiters. You defend those that make our recruits look like stupid, little desperate hacks. And you attack those who vigorously defend the military...with the weak excuse of "you use insulting language". But ignore the insulting language of the attacker of recruiters, and yourself. I myself don't believe you do anything but run your mouth.

[bradclark1]

Is there anything wrong with providing these kids with career choices? If not what's your problem? You've already proven yourself to be a fool. The military is a volunteer force. Nobody ius forced to join. And these recruiters have a job to do. SH has a right to speak ill of them, and you have a right to protect those who seek to damage the honor of our military people. But I have a right to fire back. And I will. Get over yourself.

Make up your mind Sea Demon. You are looking idiotic. You run your mouth saying they aren't, then you turn around run your mouth saying they are.

a backpeddler.........inconsistent

Just what I said. You couldn't show anything. Show me the errors.

SH said some remarkably bad things about US military recruiters. He only decided to backpeddle himself once he saw that he wasn't going to get away with it wholesale. Learn a lesson from that. Because you will get no free ride yourself. If you lump yourself in with that group, and attack those who seek to fight for the honor of our recruiters, you have only yourself to blame when it doesn't go right for you and not everyone is throwing roses at your feet.

Like I said he is entitled to an opinion. You don't like it with your bigotry I'll call you on it.

I still don't see "ignorant foreigner" anywhere in there.

Funny, looks pretty blatant to me. read it again.

The problem is SH, you came into my country, and you began listening to left-wing Democrats about the nature of this country. Along the way, you have been made to believe the stupidity of Democrat activists. I find it sad that there are foreign people who come into the USA for whatever reason, and waste their time believing the false ideas and spin driven by America hating leftists. It's a shame really. The above youtube clip is from a parody item that relates to military recruiters changing requirements to meet current goals. It's brought to you by a spinning lefty who has an agenda against fox news. Nothing more than that really.

Democrat activists use this language, and most people know it. You simply cannot blur that or pretend the opposite is true. I'm sure your next diatribe will attempt it. But you look dumber trying to clean up that fact. It just doesn't mesh in the real world. You see, we've seen even members of the failed Democrat Congress say very demeaning things about the military. John Murtha saying our soldiers were killing civilians in cold blood. I'm sure SH saw that and said "yeah, they are murderers!" Maybe you did as well. What about Dick Durbin comparing them to Nazi's? Maybe you and SH had a jolly good time with that one, didn't you? It's not hard to see where some of these emotionally based false assertions against military recruiters come from. Too bad you can't handle it. It's not just my opinion, but many people see the same thing. It's in the words. But of course you have no trouble with an ad hominem attack from that direction, do you?!? That's where your little argument about "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" falls on it's face.

Oh lord, here we go again. Evil Democrats. It's all a Democratic conspiracy. You are pathetic. Go to another demonstration again so you can look as dumb as they are. Do you jump up and down and hoot and holler too?

No, you simply coddle and protect those that diminish the roles of recruiters. And attack those that are in the process of defending their role and mission. That's the same thing. Like I said, your bigotry against our military is not in the form of words, it's in deeds.

Nope, what I said was he's entitled to his opinion. Read the whole paragraph and it explains itself and his feelings.

Not only do you backpedal.

Are you dense? For the third time show me where I backpedal. If you can't you have nothing to say on the subject.

Yeah, every one of you that denigrates our military is a medal of honor winner, who personally carries the weight of all servicemen. You listen to vets, buy them burgers, and behind their backs defend people who marginalize their recruiters. You defend those that make our recruits look like stupid, little desperate hacks. And you attack those who vigorously defend the military...with the weak excuse of "you use insulting language". But ignore the insulting language of the attacker of recruiters, and yourself. I myself don't believe you do anything but run your mouth.

I do in deeds what you do in mouth. You don't do a damned thing but run your mouth. What have you done to help any veterans? Nothing. Then you try and belittle those that do. You aren't worth scraping off the bottom of my shoe. All mouth no action. I'll tell you what mouth. You are an engineer supposedly. Good pay I would think. Go to a veterans hospital and show your support. Don't want to bother with it do you? Too much of an effort? A waste of your time? Put your money where your mouth is. In fact you don't even have to spend a penny. Just go to a veterans hospital and shake their hand. Tell them you are proud of them. Ask one in a wheel chair if they need a push to an appointment. You won't though will you? Don't want to waste your valuable time or money? Don't want to look at them because it's such a terrible thing? Hurts your sensibilities? Don't want to do anything because they might be Democrats? Show your support! Turn your mouth into action. Do you even know where the hospitals or clinics are? Here's a link that shows what's close to you.
http://www1.va.gov/directory/guide/state.asp?STATE=CA

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Make up your mind Sea Demon. You are looking idiotic. You run your mouth saying they aren't, then you turn around run your mouth saying they are.

Nope. Wrong again. I have opposed the assertion that military recruiters are looking for poor downtrodden people and exploiting their situation to recruit them. And the other assertion that recruiters are predators looking to fool underage kids into military jobs. And I was against the assertion that the recruiters are worthy of being called "bastards". Something you have not addressed. In fact you haven't addressed any of the things I posted. But it's no real surprise there.

Just what I said. You couldn't show anything. Show me the errors.

Not only did I show you, but you've shown me yourself. Your inability to maintain course and heading from your original point of view is your fault not mine. And you still haven't answered for why you seemingly have no problem with SH calling our military recruiters "bastards", and starting his threads with ad hominem attacks. "It's not what he says, it's how he says it", right? That should go for you too, seeing as how you originally attacked me as well, for seemingly trying to defend the honor of US military recruiters. Perhaps supporting our military offends you in some way. Perhaps you're offended because while G.W. Bush is CNC, you guys are supposed to be able to get away with attacking Bush's military in any way you'd like. Unfortunately, other people who truly support our nations military see it differntly, and are not shy about pointing it out. Crawl back in your hole. You're arguments and feeble attempts to explain yourself ain't cutting the mustard. And it won't until you address your own personal attacks on me personally, and your support for somebody who attacks our military recruiters with nonsense.

Funny, looks pretty blatant to me. read it again.

Oh really. Gee, I read it again and nowhere in there do I call him an ignorant foreigner. In fact, I don't call him any names at all. I did say that he wastes his time listening to hateful Democrat activists that demean our military. I won't back away from that. I know that's exactly where it comes from. You then came in and called me something demeaning. I think whatever psych ward you're around, you need to spend more time there yourself. You're reading things that aren't there, and ignore your own personal attacks and name calling. "It's not what you say" brad "it's how you say it."

Oh lord, here we go again. Evil Democrats. It's all a Democratic conspiracy. You are pathetic. Go to another demonstration again so you can look as dumb as they are. Do you jump up and down and hoot and holler too?

You cannot disprove that they said any of this. I can go and provide links if you'd like. The comments from our failed Democrats in Congress that are demoralizing to our people in the military is long and wide. It may bother you, but that won't make it go away. They are on record for it, and I find them reprehensible. Not only that, you are in this forum,n ot angry at SH for calling our military recruiters "bastards", you're mad at the guy defending our recruiters. And you are looking for praise that you will not receive for it.

Nope, what I said was he's entitled to his opinion. Read the whole paragraph and it explains itself and his feelings.

Yes. He is. But what you guys on the Democrat/anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-military side of things fail to realize is that supporters of the military have a right to express their opinions as well. And they have a right to defend the military and it's recruiters when they are being marginalized and demeaned with false nonsense. And if you and SH come into a topic and begin your thoughts with personal attacks, name-calling, and outright nonsense, don't be surprised when some of it gets fired back. That's what I find most comical about this whole thing. You can dish out plenty but can't take it yourself.

Are you dense? For the third time show me where I backpedal. If you can't you have nothing to say on the subject.

I did, and incidentally, so did you. But anyway, this is truly a minor point. The big one is where SH craps on our military, you defend him. You both insult and demean, marginalize recruiters and their mission, and you are shocked that there is a rebuttal to your attacks.

I do in deeds what you do in mouth.

I don't buy it. You spend all day here arguing and trolling this forum to do anything there. Save your little "look at me guys, I'm a hero" speech. You have no idea what I do for veterans. I have given money to veterans affairs, and am in a sponsorship for veterans at Travis AFB. But I don't need to use it to justify my support for them or look for praise. I just do it. Not only that, but I do actually defend military people from those that call them "bastards". I do oppose politicians that compare our troops to Nazis, threaten to cut off their funding, make resounding statements that "the War is lost" while boots are on the ground, and attempt to trivialize the issue of recruiting to the point where liberal Democrats in certain cities make recruiters out to be criminals. I do alot more than just shake hands and buy burgers, pal.

[bradclark1]

I have opposed the assertion that military recruiters are looking for poor downtrodden people and exploiting their situation to recruit them

Show where that assertion is made? You made it in your mind. The only person talking about "poor downtrodden people is you".

Not only did I show you, but you've shown me yourself.

What is this the fourth time I've said this? Show me. Show everyone.

And you still haven't answered for why you seemingly have no problem with SH calling our military recruiters "bastards", and starting his threads with ad hominem attacks.

SH explained himself and his thoughts in his next comment.
I believe it started with this:

Come on SH. Don't be so ignorant.

Oh really. Gee, I read it again and nowhere in there do I call him an ignorant foreigner............................
"It's not what you say" brad "it's how you say it."

There you go. Thank you.

Yes. He is. But what you guys on the Democrat/anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-military side of things fail to realize is that supporters of the military have a right to express their opinions as well. And they have a right to defend the military and it's recruiters when they are being marginalized and demeaned with false nonsense. And if you and SH come into a topic and begin your thoughts with personal attacks, name-calling, and outright nonsense, don't be surprised when some of it gets fired back. That's what I find most comical about this whole thing. You can dish out plenty but can't take it yourself.

Here we go again. The evil Democrats anti-military. Show me an anti-military comment. He only refers to recruiters and read on further. Err What can't I take?

did, and incidentally, so did you. But anyway, this is truly a minor point.

No it's not because you base half your argument on that. Now you can't back it up you call it a minor point.
Where am I shocked about anything? Stop letting your imagination run away with you.

Save your little "look at me guys, I'm a hero" speech.

What I did is prove that I support while all you do is run your lips because you don't do anything.

I have given money to veterans affairs, and am in a sponsorship for veterans at Travis AFB.

If you had said you donate to the VA Van account or VA christmas account or VA television account or one of the other support accounts I might have believed you. I don't beleive you. Because of that I checked Travis air force out and didn't find anything on veterans sponsorship either. Now if you had said you belonged to one of the veteran organization that supports vets I would have believed you. Thats all I'll say on it. You've just shown what you are.
The rest of your paragraph is political garbage.

I do alot more than just shake hands and buy burgers, pal.

You don't do squat.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Show where that assertion is made? You made it in your mind. The only person talking about "poor downtrodden people is you".

Talk about somebody hitting the same brick wall right in the face over and over again. Go away troll. How long did it take you to think of the spin and drivel here? Some point was being made that military recruiters are setting up shop in less affluent neighborhoods. And the point is being made...why? Not only that there was a point, supported by you even that the military makes a habit out of exploiting kids to get them to join as well. It need not be implicit to see your angle. If you didn't think so, maybe you'd be on the right side of the argument. You're not though. And coming back over and over again won't change that.

What is this the fourth time I've said this? Show me. Show everyone.

Look at your second posting where you say..."have shown that the military puts a lot into recruiting in depressed areas which on a recruiting stand point makes a lot of sense. They'll go where they can get the bodies. Not everybody agree's with doing business that way but it works." Then you say a few posts down "I'm sure there are people from an affluent background serving." Well no kidding, and it's good you point that out. And that kind of goes against your first direction there. You guys always backpeddle once you get caught in BS rhetoric. And it's funny as hell to watch. You make it seems like the military is guilty of something up there, then say when push comes to shove that there are more than just the poor there. You may get mad at me for not allowing this BS, but it will be pointed out. Anyway, this is a very minor point. The main issue is why you choose to support and defend someone who chooses to denigrate our military recruiter with foul names. Someone who trys to make recruiters look as though they are wrong for finding recruits. It's not my problem if you look like the horse's A** because of it.

ASH explained himself and his thoughts in his next comment.
I believe it started with this:

There you go. Thank you.

There still is nowhere you can point that I called himanything. In fact, only you and him were guilty of name-calling in my direction. And then you get mad when I partake in it after thae fact in your direction. Yeah, if you could only practice what you preach. You joined the topic in attack mode, and are devastated because you now look more foolish than you ever did. And by the way, SH calmed down once he saw he was going to get challenged and wasn't going to get a free ride. Nothing more. And he never apologized or expressed regret over his heinous comments about our recruiters. And you have done nothing but vigorously defend him. And are doing nothing but digging a bigger hole for yourself with every post. You even seem to support his ideas at the foundation level. You're problem isn't with SH and his trashing of military recruiters, it's with me and others who point out who the vile military haters are. You're never going to get it differently. So get used to it. Crying won't make it any different.

No it's not because you base half your argument on that. Now you can't back it up you call it a minor point.
Where am I shocked about anything? Stop letting your imagination run away with you.

Nope. I base my arguments on the fact that I was attacked wholesale and our recruiters were attacked and called "bastards". And their mission was also trivialized by this person. You not only defend this guy, but you join the topic making personal attacks of your own. Very impotent ones at that.

What I did is prove that I support while all you do is run your lips because you don't do anything.

You shake hands, pop cigarettes in mouths, buy burgers and come here and troll. You also pretend you're some kind of hero as you help somebody trivialize the mission of military recruiters. And you attempt to legitimize the very arguments that recruiters are predators....."bastards" even. I think those are the most foul comments here, yet you never address them. That speaks alot of your lack of character. In fact, the personal attacks are driven by SH and you. And now you whine because some of the fire is headed your way. It's too funny.

If you had said you donate to the VA Van account or VA christmas account or VA television account or one of the other support accounts I might have believed you. I don't beleive you. Because of that I checked Travis air force out and didn't find anything on veterans sponsorship either. Now if you had said you belonged to one of the veteran organization that supports vets I would have believed you. Thats all I'll say on it. You've just shown what you are.

The sponsorship is through my work. You don't understand anything. But nevertheless I do have a membership in the local American Legion, and AFA. There is no official Travis AFB department of charity listed because it's not official. We send things to them (care packages), and help with their needs. Not only that, we are thinking of expanding this to the National Guard unit in the Central Valley as more people are participating in it. Real people who actually care for our military personnel and take the time to do real stuff. Not the fake hero speeches that come from guys like you while you support people who stab them in the back.

The rest of your paragraph is political garbage.

And you can't disprove any of it. It makes you mad because it's true. All those statements by those Democrats are on record. It's not my fault if you support them now is it? Nor is it my fault if I point it out. If what they say makes you uncomfortable, or if people pointing out their hideous statements offends you, that's too bad. Nobody is going to allow it without rebuttal. You have to take it. You have no choice. Maybe you should write letters to your favorite Democrats and tell them to shut up.

You don't do squat.

I think I do alot more than you if I actually donate money. Have you ever heard of disabled veterans charities? I also have given to my local VFW. They gave money to help rehabilitate injured soldiers. And I also at least defend those who serve in the military while you seemingly don't care if they're being called "bastards". Nice, but no dice for you. All you've proven is that you're becoming a desperate troll here fishing for anything. And you're still hitting the same brick wall. You have not proven you do anything at all to support our military people in any way. And the visible aspects demonstrated here by you that we can all see, you don't seem to be on their side at all.

[baggygreen]

play nice guys..

has there been any other instances of this sorta thing going on in the US anywhere other than Berkley??

[bradclark1]

Talk about somebody hitting the same brick wall right in the face over and over again. Go away troll. How long did it take you to think of the spin and drivel here? Some point was being made that military recruiters are setting up shop in less affluent neighborhoods. And the point is being made...why? Not only that there was a point, supported by you even that the military makes a habit out of exploiting kids to get them to join as well. It need not be implicit to see your angle. If you didn't think so, maybe you'd be on the right side of the argument. You're not though. And coming back over and over again won't change that.

This is what I said. Point being they will go where they can get people. If you want to call that exploited go ahead. I'm not. Where am I wrong in the below fact? No I'm not.

There have been a few news shows (60 Minutes, Nightline, etc) over the last few years that have shown that the military puts a lot into recruiting in depressed areas which on a recruiting stand point makes a lot of sense. They'll go where they can get the bodies. Not everybody agree's with doing business that way but it works.

Look at your second posting where you say..."have shown that the military puts a lot into recruiting in depressed areas which on a recruiting stand point makes a lot of sense. They'll go where they can get the bodies. Not everybody agrees with doing business that way but it works."

You forgot the first part "There have been a few news shows (60 Minutes, Nightline, etc) over the last few years that have shown"
Further down I wrote:

Look, it's a fact the military puts a lot into recruitment of depressed area's. It's a logical place to go. They give a huge bonus for combat arms. An 11 series mos (infantry) can get anywhere from $4,000 to $16,000 plus education benefits just for enlisting. That's a hell of an incentive if you live in a small dead end town in the middle of Kansas. They aren't going to set up an office in the Hampton's. Recruiting Command will do what it takes and go where it takes to fill the ranks. If people are upset about it "oh well". It makes no sense to gloss over a reality just because you don't like people complaining about it. Reality is Reality.

Where you get downtrodden I'll never know.
Lets look at your next slice of selective editing.

Then you say a few posts down "I'm sure there are people from an affluent background serving." Well no kidding, and it's good you point that out.

Lets look where this came from:

You don't think there is anybody serving from an affluent background? To you, everybody in the military is there out of economic desperation?

Duh
What I replied:

What I said was you won't see a recruiter in the Hamptons. I'm sure there are people from an affluent background serving. No, what I said was "That's a hell of an incentive if you live in a small dead end town in the middle of Kansas." Where am I wrong in that? You don't think Recruiting Command doesn't go where they think they can get the people? I'm trying to understand where you see personal desperation in that. In fact I'm trying to understand why you seem incensed over it. You don't think they target rural America?

Moving on down:

You guys always backpeddle once you get caught in BS rhetoric. And it's funny as hell to watch. You make it seems like the military is guilty of something up there, then say when push comes to shove that there are more than just the poor there. You may get mad at me for not allowing this BS, but it will be pointed out. Anyway, this is a very minor point.

Backpeddle on what? The military isn't guilty of anything. I think I made it pretty clear that Recruiting Command will go where the bodies are? Where the hell you get desperation and downtrodden and only taking poor people is in your own mind.
Now it's a minor point? You have a screw loose genius.

The main issue is why you choose to support and defend someone who chooses to denigrate our military recruiter with foul names. Someone who trys to make recruiters look as though they are wrong for finding recruits. It's not my problem if you look like the horse's A** because of it.

One of your favorite tactic is selective memory. He explained those feeling pretty good. I also expanded on it a little.

The military is over a million strong and there are a million reasons for joining. If people disagree with the war they are going to view recruiting as bad and that kids are being taken advantage of. One equals the other. Unless the average person has lived around the military they have no concept of what it's like besides what they see in the news or movies. The people with attitudes are few and if you can educate them.... but it's not worth getting in a pissing contest over.

What I said before earlier:

My daughter started receiving phone calls from recruiters at 16. I don't see anything wrong with that but he does. I don't agree with him but he has that right.

Now this part

There still is nowhere you can point that I called himanything.

Heres you:

Come on SH. Don't be so ignorant.

The problem is SH, you came into my country, and you began listening to left-wing Democrats about the nature of this country. Along the way, you have been made to believe the stupidity of Democrat activists. I find it sad that there are foreign people who come into the USA for whatever reason, and waste their time believing the false ideas and spin driven by America hating leftists. It's a shame really. The above youtube clip is from a parody item that relates to military recruiters changing requirements to meet current goals. It's brought to you by a spinning lefty who has an agenda against fox news. Nothing more than that really.

Now, further down:

And that kind of goes against your first direction there. You guys always backpeddle once you get caught in BS rhetoric. And it's funny as hell to watch. You make it seems like the military is guilty of something up there, then say when push comes to shove that there are more than just the poor there. You may get mad at me for not allowing this BS, but it will be pointed out. Anyway, this is a very minor point. The main issue is why you choose to support and defend someone who chooses to denigrate our military recruiter with foul names. Someone who trys to make recruiters look as though they are wrong for finding recruits. It's not my problem if you look like the horse's A** because of it.

The only one talking about guilt is you. How the military recruits is no big secret. Again, they go where the bodies are. You don't think they offer big bonuses to be good'ol boys do you. I'm still not finding where anybody has said downtrodden and poor. SH said he doesn't approve of recruiters targeting students. He can disapprove if he wants to without getting a ration of s#!t from the likes of you.

You joined the topic in attack mode, and are devastated because you now look more foolish than you ever did.

I think it will take something more than you for anyone to feel devastated.

And are doing nothing but digging a bigger hole for yourself with every post.

I haven't seen a hole yet.

it's with me and others who point out who the vile military haters are.

Where do you get military haters from? In fact who are these others. They wouldn't happen to be fluffy pink elephants would they? You need to take another of your pills. Come down to reality.

Nope. I base my arguments on the fact that I was attacked wholesale and our recruiters were attacked and called "bastards". And their mission was also trivialized by this person. You not only defend this guy, but you join the topic making personal attacks of your own. Very impotent ones at that.

You are fascinated with that word aren't you. Read his thread and not the one word. Nearly as bad as your downtrodden and poor.
You don't think this is attacking him with your Demophobia? Poor little foreigner allowing himself to be made a fool of by evil Democrats.

The sponsorship is through my work. You don't understand anything.

Oh I think I understand perfectly. You and I both understand.

And you can't disprove any of it.

Where does politics come into this. You can't go one day without an attack of Demophobia. Save it for the political threads.

I think I do alot more than you if I actually donate money. Have you ever heard of disabled veterans charities? I also have given to my local VFW.

You showed yourself for what you are perfectly the first time.

And the visible aspects demonstrated here by you that we can all see, you don't seem to be on their side at all.

In the America I live in a person can have a difference of opinion. He doesn't like recruiters in school. I don't agree but I'll step on you if I think you are being your usual self to someone because they won't agree with you.
Now go take your pill and go to bed like a good boy.