Daring Surface Attack

[MENTAT]

Penolope,

I love surface attacks,
I hate foggy & bad weathers. Torpedoes go off before impact frequetly in bad weathers and fog brings too much surprises. But i will try your suggestion.

I didnt know that silent speed was useful on surface?? AFAIK, silent speed is restricted with 3 knots. (and This is also valid for surface conditions, is that not?) aint this cripples your manuever flexibilty?

You say, cruise with tubes open, what is the draw back of it? does it affect your speed? fuel consumption?

@Markshot, As I understand, you suggest running away while surfaced is more advantageous during night strikes? with low speed i guess? This will surely ruin ones nerves

How to know what is the visibilty rate, say on a regular night with moon?

Another question, might be off topic; what is the max. depth a torpedo can be fired?

[Sebbe02]

thnx markshot, I heard of that tric before. Might try it tonight, I found a small convoy with two nice targets in.

[Penelope_Grey]

@MENTAT

I didn't mean silent speed on the surface lol. I meant engage silent running so your men keep quiet. Its handy as well because in a crash dive scenario you are already silent so saves you one thing.

But more often than not, I just use silent running on the surface to stop my watch crew yelling "Ship Spotted" at me.

On the surface you use ahead slow. Which on a VII is about 7 knots, fast enough, if you go too fast, you make yourself more spotable.

There is no draw back to manually opening your tubes before you shoot. Far as I know, they close automatically after you fire.

Also use the shallow depth meter if needbe to put the boat low in the water. So a Type VII's normal surface trim is 5m, you put it at 6m for example and she will run low in the water, that is very handy to reduce your chances of being seen.

[MarkShot]

The enemy only listens for you when you are submerged. Now, if a storm if you are out of viz range ... how do you know for sure ... well, if you cannot see them, then they cannot see you ... also you will still be getting random hydrophone contacts due to huge swells ... viz is going to be under 1,000M. So, if you hold an escort at long or medium range, he/she is not going to see you.

Then, I say go to flank. Maximum displacement in minimum time.

By the way, I also think torpedos should be set to run a couple of meters deeper in storms to avoid broaching and going off track, but that is just speculation, I have no serious research behind that.

[MENTAT]

Originally Posted by MarkShot

...Then, I say go to flank. Maximum displacement in minimum time.

But aint they hear your engines roaming with hydrophone checks?

Do they use hydrophones and sonar together by the way?

[Sebbe02]

They can't use both together, and both are useless on the surface... (I think)

[rik007]

Indeed I do not have the impression that they will detect you at the surface with hydrophone so they do not work then. I think it is merely sighting what is the problem. Diesel will make more noise than electrocal engines but still you can approach a convoy to about 1.5 km undetected at the surface. Trouble start when the fishes start to hit targets when you still at the surface.

[MarkShot]

The whole point ... in a storm at night those explosions are not problem. You are practically invisible without radar. You can stay on the surface and maneuver at significant speed. The last thing you want to do is dive and provide the escorts with a means to locate you.

Even if they do get lucky to get visual contact on you, then as I have said dive, get enough separation to be outside of visual range and, then, surface and run for it while they continue circling where you went down.

I've done this. A severe storm at night is the most amazing boost to the lethality and stealth of your boat.

[Nuoz]

Originally Posted by rik007

Yesterday I tried it in a moonless night (1940). First I checked convoy speed by measuring time needed for the ships to travel 300m and then I positioned my u-boot so that I could pass the destroyer at maximum distance but still could reach the rear of the convoy. At low speed I turned in and passed the destroyer at about 2 km who just left the convoy for a search - maybe he heard me. So my U-boot was between the convoy and the destroyer. At 1.5 Km I used the UZO to find the merchants. I must say that it was a fantastic sight to see the ships filling the UZO. I enjoyed it briefly as I was worried about the destroyer that would return and the merchants that could spot me. With two salvo's I destroyed two large merchants. As one ship was stilll exploding the destroyer turned in on me and I dived as fast as I could to sneak under the convoy to disappear silently through the back. A dream experience which I will repeat for sure!

Are you really immune to hydrophones while surfaced? If you are, it doesnt make much sense to me as i can detect surfaced vessels by hydrophone. I don't get it

[Sebbe02]

Good point Nuoz, that's something that doesn't ad up.

I performed a surface attack today. Found myself a good firing position, came to a stop, shot the torpedo's and started moving towards the convoy with a spare torpedo, ready to finish any victims of.

I was surprised about how quickly they saw me. Only 3 seconds after impact, and the bullets where allready flying... Sure, it was open sky, but don't they need to find you with the spotlights first?

[rik007]

Originally Posted by Nuoz

Are you really immune to hydrophones while surfaced? If you are, it doesnt make much sense to me as i can detect surfaced vessels by hydrophone. I don't get it

Hi Nuoz, I'm not saying you are immune and I will not advice to run flank at 1.5 km from the merchants but if the enemies hydrophones do work as well as ours we would be easily detected from miles and miles away and surface attacks would be impossible for sure.

While running slow or standard a surface approach with some waves and dark night it is very well possible.

[rik007]

Originally Posted by Sebbe02

Good point Nuoz, that's something that doesn't ad up.

I performed a surface attack today. Found myself a good firing position, came to a stop, shot the torpedo's and started moving towards the convoy with a spare torpedo, ready to finish any victims of.

I was surprised about how quickly they saw me. Only 3 seconds after impact, and the bullets where allready flying... Sure, it was open sky, but don't they need to find you with the spotlights first?

Sebbe02, that 3 seconds is visual contact after you wakened them up a little bit... The point with surface attacks is the escape after the torpedoes hit. The best way to set up the attack is to torp a distant target and while the fishes are running start aiming at a nearby target so all torpedoes start exploding when you have already started the escape. With a surface attack that is a bit difficult as the nearest target is 1.5 km away etc. Still it is a shame that they do find you that easily.

[MarkShot]

Just to be clear, I am talking about attacking at night, overcast skies, winds at 15M, and rain is good too. Either my SH3/GWX installation is hosed or under such circumstances, you are invisible. Even for you to spot merchants you need to first close to about 600-500M. However, after the spotting, then you can probably hold the visual contact up to about 800M.

Now, if you attack on the surface on a clear bright moonlit night with winds at 0 meters, you are definitely going to get what is coming to you.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by TarJak

@Ms Grey

the only thing I'd add to your otherwise splendid tutorial is to ensure that you are running decks awash to cut your visible profile down. this does make a big difference to your chances of being spotted.

Other than that have your finger hovering over the C key after your have fired. If the spotlights lock onto you, it's best to just bug out ASAP.

I would add the finer points maybe In her first attack she induced
simultaneous detonation of her first two torps. Practicing enough
with the timing differentials of torp tracks fore and aft fast and slow
at well practiced range estimates allows simultaneous or near
simultaneous detonations of all torps. done at enough range.
this type of Strike First Strike Fast Strike hard technique, can
have you well on the way to a total evasion before the escorts
are aware of your presence as well as prohibiting late evasive
maneuvers on the targets. Using oblique firing angles
for and aft shots alternately fast and slow torps and differentiated
target ranges are the techniques that need to be practiced.
simultaneous detonations of six torps in sh3 and Potentially ten in sh4
is one very satisfying experience. My best is seven with a three out of
synch in sh4. all six in sh3 I have done many times albeit this is not
really for manual shooting.

p.s. Hi Jack.

M
of all

[rik007]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

... Using oblique firing angles for and aft shots alternately fast and slow torps and differentiated target ranges are the techniques that need to be practiced. simultaneous detonations of six torps in sh3 and Potentially ten in sh4 is one very satisfying experience...

And that will be the new level to be reached by us all: surface attack + simultaneous detonation.