Does anyone believe that Cheney is right?

[baggygreen]

totally true tchocky, about american politics being absolutely fascinating! i wonder if the same was said of the Romans at one point in history, and of the Greeks....:hmm:

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Your interest in the politics of the US is complimentary but really not the business of those who are not citizens. I for one do not comment on the internal politics of other nations. I will not comment on those issues, regardless how interesting they are.

Why not? All I'm doing is posting my opinions on a messageboard, where's the harm in that? I don't really understand your position. If all posters here followed that rule, half of the threeads would dry up. You're voluntarily censoring yourself here, as far as I can see. As regards complimentary, no it isn't. Fascinating may not be positive. For the moment I'd say it is my business, as I am currently residing in the US, and the internal politics over the last 6 years have imposed a direct financial cost on me. Even if it wasn't any of my business, I'd still comment, just like I do on British & European politics. It's a round world last time I checked...

Perhaps if more folks from other nations would pay more attention to what thier gov'ts were up to the citizens of those countries would be better served.

That's equally applicable to every country, including the United States.

So tell us Tchocky why can't catholics and anglicans get along. What is it about the Irish that makes them so hostile to thier fellow countrymen? Do the orange still walk the streets terrorising the opposition. How many bombs have been detonated with loss of life last month? Terrorism is a scourge throughout the world. You have it in your own country and have had it for quite some time. What are you personally doing to stop the murder of inocents.

[Tchocky]

First off, thanks for not answering or acknowledging my questions

Originally Posted by waste gate

So tell us Tchocky why can't catholics and anglicans get along. What is it about the Irish that makes them so hostile to thier fellow countrymen?Do the orange still walk the streets terrorising the opposition.

I see it as due to historical factors and institutional violence that thankfully has almost died out. The Orangemen still march, as long as their marching routes are approved by a Parades Commission, made up of community officials. Fellow countrymen? Look at a map. the North is part of the UK.

How many bombs have been detonated with loss of life last month? Terrorism is a scourge throughout the world. You have it in your own country and have had it for quite some time.

None. Not a single one. Political terrorism in Ireland is a thing of the past.
The last bombing in the north was in 1998, killing 28 people. The last bombs of the conflict were in london, six years ago. Seven people were injured. The group responsible for those acts are a splinter group, with no public support. The IRA ceasefire of 1994 was made permanent two years ago.

What are you personally doing to stop the murder of inocents.

In the North, it has stopped. You'd know that if you had researched your post.
How about a response to my last post?

F*CKING EDIT - "Violent to our fellow countrymen?" - Do you want me to run over to the gun thread and pull out the murder rates? I don't want to go any further off-topic, but I will if you keep posting that sort of rubbish. It's ill-informed stereotyping of the worst kind. Please don't do it in future, and if you must, not in reaction to my posts.

I don't answer questions to which you already know the answer.

[baggygreen]

Well, as a little side note, i read the other day that the heads of the anglican and catholic churches are meeting shortly to discuss a merger of some sort.. i believe it is a matter of giving anglicans a certain autonomy, but being ultimately answerable to the pope.

I think.

[August]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

And why couldnt he have put it the way you just did? A fair representation of the forces involved, not too hard.

....don't mind me, I'm a frustrated linguist

No but then again I have the luxury of sitting in the comfort of my own living room taking the time to make my posts as accurate and concise as I can. I guess when everything you say is cut into 30 second sound bites it's easy to appear to be oversimplifying things. Rest assured that Cheney may be an evil capitalist pig guilty of insulting the intelligence of foreign audiences by oversimplifing complex issues in speeches but he's no "eejit".

Besides, context is everything here. Who among us here seriously doesn't know which terrorists he's talking about? FDR was never criticized for not specifying which nazis he meant when he talked about the theat they posed to the free world, nor did Ronald Reagan have to specify which evil empire he was talking about either, so I fail to understand why a mere vice president should be held to a higher standard.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Mikkow

lsn't Al Qaeda's long-standing main goal to throw foreign military powers out of the middle east? Not world domination

"Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions. It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners, righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour, sex, or language.

(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it."
- Osama bin Laden, Letter to America, November, 2002

How quickly we forget - or ignore the details.

And this is not what Al Qaeda alone advocates. It is elementary Islamic code. From Sahih Muslim, Book 19: The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar), no. 4294:

"Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them."

See also Sahih Bukhari, vol. 1, book 2, no. 25.

Both Bukhari and Muslim are the most reputable and accepted collections of ahaddiths among Muslims worldwide.

Peaceful coexistence as equals in a pluralistic society isn't one of Islam's choices.

EDIT: Once again showing that Cheney is (finally) pointing in the right direction.

[Camaero]

Sometimes I just wish that there were more people in the US half as smart as The Avon Lady.

[Mikkow]

Thanks Avon Lady, I'll be reading all that

I can't believe this "don't talk about it unless you are a citizen there" stuff mentioned in this topic. Doesn't matter where opinions come from, esp. in international debate forum.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Your interest in the politics of the US is complimentary but really not the business of those who are not citizens. I for one do not comment on the internal politics of other nations. I will not comment on those issues, regardless how interesting they are.

:rotfl:

[geetrue]

You know what would be an interesting candidate for sub sim skipper of the month for April?

bradclark1 and waste gate running together as one ...

Notice how humble they are to both start their names with small letters

Like that old Tony Curtis movie with that black guy that was chained to him as they tried to make a get away from a prison somewhere down in the south.

It would be interesting to read their conflicting campaign speech ... :rotfl:

[Camaero]

Wow, all tied up! The battle heats up and the plot thickens! Who will be the tie breaker?

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by geetrue

Notice how humble they are to both start their names with small letters

geetrue?
No, I'm not really taking part in this topic. Cheney is right for the wrong reason. He's saying that to backup his favorite sport of fear mongering.
Islam has been after global domination for fourteen thousand years so I'm sure we have a while left yet. Just keep checking birth rates in your country to follow.

Originally Posted by geetrue

You know what would be an interesting candidate for sub sim skipper of the month for April?

bradclark1 and waste gate running together as one ...

Notice how humble they are to both start their names with small letters

Like that old Tony Curtis movie with that black guy that was chained to him as they tried to make a get away from a prison somewhere down in the south.

It would be interesting to read their conflicting campaign speech ... :rotfl:

The Defiant Ones (1958)

Tony Curtis... John 'Joker' Jackson

Sidney Poitier... Noah Cullen

Edit:

As a side note Theodore Bikel who portrayed the sheriff hunting the pair, also played 'Heinie' Schwaffer the first officer on the U-boat in the film 'Enemy Below'. His opposite number on the destroyer was David Hedison who later portrayed Capt Crane on the TV series 'Voyage to the bottom of the Sea'. Coincidence, I think not. Its a subsim world!!