War on the Middle Class

[ASWnut101]

Worst case scenario is that we actually use the nukes to get our jobs back!:p

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by STEED

How would you like the U.S.A to be carved up?

Goodbye to your national identity, your flag, your president and so on. And to be turned into a super socialist super state. I don't think many American folk would want that.

PS: I do accept that our empire under queen Victoria is long gone.

PPS: I don't trust the EU as they are working to wards an agenda.

The dark age of imperialism... this is atrocious. nobody in the US would want that. Socialism has never worked. Every single place that it has been tried, it hasn't worked. That's a fact!... And also, I don't know about the UK, but the Wealthy class in america pays about twice as much taxes as the middle class do, (in percentages).

[Tchocky]

How would you like the U.S.A to be carved up?

Goodbye to your national identity, your flag, your president and so on. And to be turned into a super socialist super state. I don't think many American folk would want that.

STEED, I don't know about you, but none of the above has happened in Ireland. Nor are any of them going to happen anytime soon.

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

STEED, I don't know about you, but none of the above has happened in Ireland. Nor are any of them going to happen anytime soon.

And thats a really good thing too... if that happened to any country it would be in shambles...

[Tchocky]

And thats a really good thing too... if that happened to any country it would be in shambles...

Yep, but STEED thinks it's happening already to all of Europe. I disagree.

@ elite - Middle class jobs don't go overseas. Low-income low-skill jobs are what get outsourced. Why? Because labour is cheaper abroad. It is a fact of globalisation that Western workers can't undercut foreign workers, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. Western workers have a skill advantage, they are more highly-trained, and if they're not they should be.
The West can't compete in low-skill manufacturing anymore, most Western economies have moved past it.

[Mush Martin]

Life is like that
evolution is a continual process of adaptation to changing environments
a process without result or final product.
and all of our respective countries be they native or adopted or even both
for England Is my Mother and Canada is my Wife and the rules for talking to
or touching either are pretty much the same with me. Regardless our countries are not unlike individuals as entities and life is what you make it.

it is the Perogative of the corporate to seek greater production and profit
from less overhead and risk.

it is the national perogative to attract business

if were soft as countries so it is as when we are soft as individuals

You can in your life or in your country feel as though you are a victim
of circumstance or a product of your choices. one empowers the other
guy and takes things out of your control and one gives you the power to
alter or change your circumstances for improvement.

It is up to us to improve our lives and our countries and our world.
so you can blame the mexicans and feel your not worthwhile to
the corporates or you can look at what you ARE able to do that
could improve the situation.

As steinbeck said
Life isnt about playing good cards its about playing a bad hand well

Look around and blame the mexicans for being themselves wanting to
win business and secure their future or the companies for wanting
to be profitable and efficient and adapatable.for being themselves.

but the only thing we are able to change is ourselves.
and what we are doing to secure our futures.

[ASWnut101]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Middle class jobs don't go overseas. Low-income low-skill jobs are what get outsourced. Why? Because labour is cheaper abroad. It is a fact of globalisation that Western workers can't undercut foreign workers, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. Western workers have a skill advantage, they are more highly-trained, and if they're not they should be.
The West can't compete in low-skill manufacturing anymore, most Western economies have moved past it.

Then why does my TEXAS Instruments calculator say on the back: "Made in China?" Why does a certain American flag that I saw say "Made in Thailand?" There are plenty of jobs that have gone overseas. Plus, what do you define as "low-skill manufacturing?"

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

Then why does my TEXAS Instruments calculator say on the back: "Made in China?" Why does a certain American flag that I saw say "Made in Thailand?" There are plenty of jobs that have gone overseas. Plus, what do you define as "low-skill manufacturing?"

Assembly line working, so-called "lego jobs". Such as your calculator being put together, or the flag. They are made in low-wage countries because it makes good business sense to do so.
The calculator was probably designed in America, by an skilled worker with a qualification in electronic engineering, who's getting paid a damn sight more than whoever clicked the plastic and PCB together. And that's where we need to focus our labour forces, on education and marketable skills.

[Ishmael]

Why do you shrink from what Capitalism has wrought? When you have Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, talking about how nice it would be if factories were built on barges so they could be moved to the cheapest labor market, it's not hard to understand. It's called a Race To The Bottom. Capital will always flow where labor costs are cheapest, regardless of the government there. In fact, corporations prefer authoritarian governments because real democracy is too messy and workers might actually demand wage, collective bargaining and environmetal laws. Authoritarian governments neutralize such leanings by merely destroying anyone who advocates for those things.
As long as the Kings of Corporations can live and work inside their gated communities with their private security apparatus, don't look for anything to change. Until the shrinking middle-class takes up arms in this class war Corporations are prosecuting against us, there will be no change until the class war is brought to their doors.

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yep, but STEED thinks it's happening already to all of Europe. I disagree.

@ elite - Middle class jobs don't go overseas. Low-income low-skill jobs are what get outsourced. Why? Because labour is cheaper abroad. It is a fact of globalisation that Western workers can't undercut foreign workers, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. Western workers have a skill advantage, they are more highly-trained, and if they're not they should be.
The West can't compete in low-skill manufacturing anymore, most Western economies have moved past it.

Yes, I think its not happening already in europe, i do think that european countries are trying some more socialist type ways of doing things and that might hurt them in the long run

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

Why do you shrink from what Capitalism has wrought? When you have Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, talking about how nice it would be if factories were built on barges so they could be moved to the cheapest labor market, it's not hard to understand. It's called a Race To The Bottom. Capital will always flow where labor costs are cheapest, regardless of the government there. In fact, corporations prefer authoritarian governments because real democracy is too messy and workers might actually demand wage, collective bargaining and environmetal laws. Authoritarian governments neutralize such leanings by merely destroying anyone who advocates for those things.
As long as the Kings of Corporations can live and work inside their gated communities with their private security apparatus, don't look for anything to change. Until the shrinking middle-class takes up arms in this class war Corporations are prosecuting against us, there will be no change until the class war is brought to their doors.

Ok, then i have one question for you, Name five countries where a Socialist government has been successful. :hmm:

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Yep, but STEED thinks it's happening already to all of Europe. I disagree.

@ elite - Middle class jobs don't go overseas. Low-income low-skill jobs are what get outsourced. Why? Because labour is cheaper abroad. It is a fact of globalisation that Western workers can't undercut foreign workers, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. Western workers have a skill advantage, they are more highly-trained, and if they're not they should be.
The West can't compete in low-skill manufacturing anymore, most Western economies have moved past it.

Yeah, and I see the "low-income low-skill" Americans increasing. That's the only people the current status-quo hurts. I see quite a few of these people every day. The American lower class has been getting lower quite a bit lately, the only beneficiaries that I've seen are the illegal/imported Mexicans from.

The sad thing is, many times daily I see Mexican immigrants ( many here legally due to their employers pulling strings) who can't speak any English whip out wads of $100 bills to buy whatever they want without hesitation. While I see people born here in the US scraping up coins... literally dollars worth.. to buy something that's less than $10. I certainly can't say they're rocket scientists, but I'm positive they could get a job in all the chicken processing plants/playground equipment manufacturers in one of the towns I work.

The Mexicans have more disposable income than I do and I'm single with no children!

Something is seriously wrong with this setup.

[loynokid]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

Yeah, and I see the "low-income low-skill" Americans increasing. That's the only people the current status-quo hurts. I see quite a few of these people every day. The American lower class has been getting lower quite a bit lately, the only beneficiaries that I've seen are the illegal/imported Mexicans from.

The sad thing is, many times daily I see Mexican immigrants ( many here legally due to their employers pulling strings) who can't speak any English whip out wads of $100 bills to buy whatever they want without hesitation. While I see people born here in the US scraping up coins... literally dollars worth.. to buy something that's less than $10. I certainly can't say they're rocket scientists, but I'm positive they could get a job in all the chicken processing plants/playground equipment manufacturers in one of the towns I work.

The Mexicans have more disposable income than I do and I'm single with no children!

Something is seriously wrong with this setup.

I know, but another point to bring up is why are some americans very poor and unemployed? My theory is that some of them are poor because they don't want to do any work, or some have made very bad choices in life like drug abbuse, and serious felonies. there are also of course some people who just cant get back on their feet due to un forseen problems and such, but as I understand it, that is a pretty small percentage of the low income class of the US.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by loynokid

Ok, then i have one question for you, Name five countries where a Socialist government has been successful. :hmm:

Well, this is not really a clear question. For socialist governments, or governing bodies where a socialist party and agenda are in power, the list becomes quite long and detailed:

China
North Korea
Cuba
Venezuela
Vietnam
Syria
Belarus
Sweeden
Laos
Zambia
Turkmenistan
Libya
Algeria
Norway (depending on the type of analysis used)
Namibia

However, not one of these nations is purely socialist in it's economic policy, just as there is no purely capitalist economic policy, and since both socialism and capitalism are strictly economic in origin, this will be the tell-tale. In the case of each of the afforementioned 'socialist' nations, you will find the existence of various degrees of free-market and private-run sectors, just as you will find common welfare and government-issued funding in all 'capitalist' nations. In reality, there are no purely ideological economic systems in the world today, or in it's history.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Well, this is not really a clear question. For socialist governments, or governing bodies where a socialist party and agenda are in power, the list becomes quite long and detailed:

China
North Korea
Cuba
Venezuela
Vietnam
Syria
Belarus
Sweeden
Laos
Zambia
Turkmenistan
Libya
Algeria
Norway (depending on the type of analysis used)
Namibia

However, not one of these nations is purely socialist in it's economic policy, just as there is no purely capitalist economic policy, and since both socialism and capitalism are strictly economic in origin, this will be the tell-tale. In the case of each of the afforementioned 'socialist' nations, you will find the existence of various degrees of free-market and private-run sectors, just as you will find common welfare and government-issued funding in all 'capitalist' nations. In reality, there are no purely ideological economic systems in the world today, or in it's history.

I'd be happy if the US would adopt Thomas Jefferson's idea that the gov't should only secure the borders and deliver the mail.