Hillary Clinton - Page 5

Tchocky · 01-21-07, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaotic42

People that are going to destroy things and oppress people will do it with or without guns.

You cant shoot someone with a knife, it's harder to kneecap someone without a gun. The difference is usually mortal.

Quote:

Edit:

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless.

I never said that. To me, gun ownership is a part of self-defense. It's not the whole thing.

You were talking about me, the conversation was about guns, you said

Quote:

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

Be consistent.

Chaotic42 · 01-21-07, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

You were talking about me, the conversation was about guns, you said

Sorry, by "it" I meant the right to bear arms.

Quote:

Be consistent.

Settle down.

U-533 · 01-21-07, 05:45 PM

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

01-21-07, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Quote:

Originally Posted by waste gate

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

For the record, I live in the USA. I said "at home" I can't buy a gun. I don't live in any sort of dark age, and I'm not a "slave to the state".

How very condescending of you. What would your response be if I took a similiar tack, tarring all Americans with the same brush? Think about what you're going to post, then start typing. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Edit:

Quote:

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless. I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

My apologies if I placed you in a wrong country. Your profile places you in the 'Ruins of Europe'. And you stated that '"at home" I can't buy a gun'.

I was working with the best information I had at hand (does that sound familiar).

Regarding your acusation of my condesention, I beg to differ. Many Germans, Judea included saw the coming strife. Hitler early on outlawed the private ownership of firearms because he was aware of the threat it posed to his plans.
This information is well documented.

geetrue · 01-21-07, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-533

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

I agree except you mis-spelled she ... unless you meant see ...

U-533 · 01-21-07, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

Quote:

Originally Posted by U-533

Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again.

God help us all if she does.

I agree except you mis-spelled she ... unless you meant see ...

It depends on what your definition of see is...:rotfl:

yep... I misspelled it

MadMike · 01-21-07, 10:02 PM

Where do the left wing politicians stand?

Avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders (i.e. the Vermont Commie)-
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Ted "The Red" Kennedy (KGB aspirant)-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm

John Kerry (NLF/VC and NVA negotiator)-
http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

Barak "Madrasah" Obama-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

Hugo Chavez-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

Yours, Mike :rotfl:

bookworm_020 · 01-21-07, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

Quote:

Originally Posted by waste gate

Hilary hasn't a chance and she and the DNC know it. She is politilcally way too divisive. The right will attack her like there is no tomorrow. If you think what they did to Bill was hard.......just wait everything from why she stayed with Bill after his admission of infidelity to whitewater to the death of Vince Foster will come back to haunt her candidancy.

You forgot the dishes with the Presidential seal that were missing from Air Force One, after
Mr. and Mrs Clinton were flown home to upper state New York, after
they left the White House.

I believe that one president (before clinton) stripped the aircraft after getting a lift home!

Subnuts · 01-21-07, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMike

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

See? She's obviously a communist!!!

Duh!

Bort · 01-22-07, 12:06 AM

Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric.

Sea Demon · 01-22-07, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric.

Hey. If the shoe fits.............

OT: And also, congratulations to the bears

Yahoshua · 01-22-07, 01:25 AM

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.

The freedom guaranteed by the constitution is that you have the choice to keep and bear arms. And, provided you're at least 18, you have that right as a citizen of the U.S.

The reason I say that the lack of the ability of the people to resist a corrupt government makes them slaves to the state is because governments that deny their citizens the ability to oust an obviously corrupt government, enslave their citizens. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, or a Parliament or Congress that no longer heeds the wishes of the people is a dangerous entity that will eventually become a threat to her citizens (or subjects, if they aren't already).

This has been shown evident time and again in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), and currently in Sudan. If the peoples massacred here had been armed enough to prove a formidable force, many of these tragedies could've been avoided. Perhaps, these tyrants could've been deterred.

Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

An educated body of people making decisions on how to run the country is the foundation of Democracy. And we have failed it bitterly in this day and age. Ideally, the people should be far more involved in the decision-making process and depend less on a beaureaucratic system that is present now.

August · 01-22-07, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

I believe that one president (before clinton) stripped the aircraft after getting a lift home!

Yeah, funny how it took them eight years to notice they were missing, right?

geetrue · 01-22-07, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.

The freedom guaranteed by the constitution is that you have the choice to keep and bear arms. And, provided you're at least 18, you have that right as a citizen of the U.S.

The reason I say that the lack of the ability of the people to resist a corrupt government makes them slaves to the state is because governments that deny their citizens the ability to oust an obviously corrupt government, enslave their citizens. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, or a Parliament or Congress that no longer heeds the wishes of the people is a dangerous entity that will eventually become a threat to her citizens (or subjects, if they aren't already).

This has been shown evident time and again in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), and currently in Sudan. If the peoples massacred here had been armed enough to prove a formidable force, many of these tragedies could've been avoided. Perhaps, these tyrants could've been deterred.

Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

An educated body of people making decisions on how to run the country is the foundation of Democracy. And we have failed it bitterly in this day and age. Ideally, the people should be far more involved in the decision-making process and depend less on a beaureaucratic system that is present now.

The problem is not guns, but people ... People don't always make the right choices with or without a gun.

Let the first politician win that says, "You do a crime with a gun and you lose all of your rights period" I think that person would get all of the votes.

I know someone is going to say, "Criminals will always find a way to get a gun" Priority is the problem with crime ... USA has a budget to fight crime, which includes lillegal use of guns, murder, drugs, failure to pay your taxes, stealing, cheating, kidnapping, sneaking across the border, etc., but yet we are losing the war on crime ...

Now back to Senator Clinton ... Can you trust anything she says while running for President of the United States?

One she wants to win ... She will promise anything that sounds good to win to what her advisors say the people want ... If her voting base is determned to be pro abortion or pro same sex marriage or pro poor people paying less taxes and the rich paying more ... Then that is the standpoint you will get from her.

The problem is ... it's not just Senator Clinton ... You have to look into the soul of every canidate and decern and learn ... or judge and lose.

That's my view from Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan (the best one yet), Clinton, to Bush, but the next two years will prove we need a strong milatary minded person for President and that lets Senator Clinton out ...

I'm still wating to make up my mind ... just like I am for Chicago or Indy ...

Wisdom comes from understanding our mistakes ...

Chaotic42 · 01-22-07, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMike

Where do the left wing politicians stand?

Avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders (i.e. the Vermont Commie)-
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm

Hillary-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Ted "The Red" Kennedy (KGB aspirant)-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm

John Kerry (NLF/VC and NVA negotiator)-
http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

Barak "Madrasah" Obama-
http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

Hugo Chavez-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

Yours, Mike :rotfl:

Clinton:
-
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
-

That's all you need to hear. That alone should make it obvious that she is not the person that we need in control of our government.

01-22-07, 12:06 AM	#70
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	Look, obviously some people on this forum find it amusing to call long serving members of congress, freely and duly elected by their constituents communists or traitors or islamic fundamentalists or whack jobs but I think that it would benefit all of us to keep such clearly inflammatory comments out of what could otherwise be an interesting exchange of views. I have always found political science to be fascinating, and I enjoy a good argument on the issues as much as the next guy, but lets please try to put a lid on the name calling and idle rhetoric. __________________ GT Aerospace

01-22-07, 01:25 AM	#72
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms. The freedom guaranteed by the constitution is that you have the choice to keep and bear arms. And, provided you're at least 18, you have that right as a citizen of the U.S. The reason I say that the lack of the ability of the people to resist a corrupt government makes them slaves to the state is because governments that deny their citizens the ability to oust an obviously corrupt government, enslave their citizens. Communism, Socialism, Fascism, or a Parliament or Congress that no longer heeds the wishes of the people is a dangerous entity that will eventually become a threat to her citizens (or subjects, if they aren't already). This has been shown evident time and again in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, Rwanda, Turkey, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), and currently in Sudan. If the peoples massacred here had been armed enough to prove a formidable force, many of these tragedies could've been avoided. Perhaps, these tyrants could've been deterred. Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy? An educated body of people making decisions on how to run the country is the foundation of Democracy. And we have failed it bitterly in this day and age. Ideally, the people should be far more involved in the decision-making process and depend less on a beaureaucratic system that is present now. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

01-21-07, 05:45 PM	#63
U-533 Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: On my Boat Posts: 594 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hillary? Hillary Clinton? See cant be President again. God help us all if she does.

01-21-07, 10:02 PM	#67
MadMike Watch Officer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 342 Downloads: 241 Uploads: 0	Where do the left wing politicians stand? Avowed Socialist Bernie Sanders (i.e. the Vermont Commie)- http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm Hillary- http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm Ted "The Red" Kennedy (KGB aspirant)- http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Ted_Kennedy.htm John Kerry (NLF/VC and NVA negotiator)- http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm Barak "Madrasah" Obama- http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm Hugo Chavez- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez Yours, Mike :rotfl: