Who will be the next President of the United States?

[dean_acheson]

BHO seriously wounded himself this morning. He had a chance to really do something that would 'unify' the country and 'change' race relations.

He threw that away.

In his speech in Philly, he could have said, my former pastor, Jerimiah Wright, whom I've know for years has made statements that are hurtful and wrong. BHO needed to say something along the lines of, the government didn't know about Pearl Harbor before it happened. The victims of 9/11 didn't deserve to die. The U.S. government did not create the Aids virus. etc. etc. etc. While my church has done wonderful things for the South Side of Chicago, and I embrace these efforts, the type of conspiratorial victimology esposued in the words of my former pastor simply tears the fabric of our society, and if we are to become a whole nation, it must be not only repudiated, but expressly rejected as untruths propogated by those who would divide us for their own benefit. (This is, of course, assuming that BHO doesn't believe these things himself.)

Instead, BHO basically said that the Wrights of the world have the right to be mad. Just like mad white people elected Reagan, as if the Carter years were bountiful and pleasant for the average American.

If he really thinks that, I'm wondering how I didn't make law review and this guy qualified to be a editor.

Can you sit on a fence less equently than this? The presentation might have been nice, but the words didn't heal, the just pointed at the tears that already exist, and embraced them, and as the Senator from Ill. so likes to tell us, words matter.

[TheSatyr]

How can someone be a member of a church for 20 years and NOT be influenced by it's Pastor?

Considering how close Obama and his wife are to Wright,there is little doubt in my mind that they agree with at least some of what Wright has preached over the years,which in my mind makes Obama far more dangerous to this country than Hillary ever could be.

As for McCain,the last thing this country needs (other than Obama) is another 4 years of a Bush clone. McCain has always been considered a "loose cannon" and not a man I would trust anywhere near the nuclear codes. Hell,when he was Governor he was considered to be a bit of a nut case.

There are no good choices for President this time around. But then there hasn't been in many years.

[NEON DEON]

I think the press must have bricks for brains.

Obama is still a member of the Trinity Church.

The Trinity church adopted The Black value system

This is on the Trinity Church's own website:

http://www.tucc.org/black_value_system.html

Point 1 from the black value system this church adopted in 1981:

"Commitment to God. “The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind."


Point 8:

"Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness." Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the "talented tenth" of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of "we" and "they" instead of "us."
So, while it is permissible to chase "middleclassness" with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black "middleclassness." If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our "voluntary" contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons."

So the words of Wright are not just in his sermons but are also the actual doctine of the church.

Point 11:


"Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System."

One of the education requirements for blacks in this black value system is the study of general semantics:

http://www.xenodochy.org/gs/wigs.html

Here is part of the post dealing with god.

"The Thomists and others attributed that domain of essences to a separate reality, one where our minds existed and also where the Gods existed. General semantics does not attribute a separate reality to essences. General semantics attributes our appreciation of essences as a natural ability of our nervous system to perform abstractions. We attribute such essences to the processes of our nervous system and not to any separate reality. The realm of essences existing as a separate reality becomes an extraneous postulate which is no longer needed to account for our observations. General semantics simply discards that realm of essences as unnecessary.
Of course, since the "gods" live in that "reality of essences", when we discard the notion of that second reality, we also discard the gods. That much of a paradigm shift is not acceptable to most people. Other devices must be created to preserve the gods under the world view of general semantics. Such devices are contrived, however, and really represent vestiges of the old paradigm. Because of this consequence of the new paradigm, there is much resistance to its acceptance. Many general semanticists stop short of changing their beliefs to be fully in accord with the new paradigm."

Say what?

Is this is a christian church or a racialy motivated political action group?

Obama can belong to this church and be President?

Geesh!

Please dont substitute the word white for the word black in regards to the black value system it might make your skin crawl.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by dean_acheson

Can you sit on a fence less equently than this? The presentation might have been nice, but the words didn't heal, the just pointed at the tears that already exist, and embraced them, and as the Senator from Ill. so likes to tell us, words matter.

Wish you could've said this in front of a microphone in a man on the street interview.

I like that term fence sitter, fits Obama.

His tone was defending Pastor Wright (Lord if all the blacks think like that we need to get more security), plus he sounded tired not up beat.

He looked defeated in Texas too when he came out to talk that night, yet he only lost by 7 delegates in the end.

I'm not so ready to think Obama is going win the nomination, but those poor democrats only have one more choice and she's not my choice.

But if Obama loses we all know who to point at ... wright?

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

Please dont substitute the word white for the word black in regards to the black value system it might make your skin crawl.

Agreed

What if Hillary or McCain's pastor, spiritual leader and friend said even just one of the statements as attributed to Rev Wright has said?

It would be a field day for the news boys ...

[The WosMan]

Hey guys, Obama has links on his website to the black panther's because they endorsed him. The guy is a real vehicle for change and racial harmony isn't he?

In all seriousness, I think Obama mortally wounded himself and has alienated a lot of independent white voters who may have considered him. Between him and the Clintons, I think the Republican party could run Nixon's severed head and it would win.

[NEON DEON]

Originally Posted by The WosMan

Hey guys, Obama has links on his website to the black panther's because they endorsed him. The guy is a real vehicle for change and racial harmony isn't he?

In all seriousness, I think Obama mortally wounded himself and has alienated a lot of independent white voters who may have considered him. Between him and the Clintons, I think the Republican party could run Nixon's severed head and it would win.

Yes it does seem that way.

In defense of Obama, something I dont usually do, the endorsement was on the open blog section which was open to blog posters. The site has removed it. Fox ran the story but to be honest it has no teeth.

Its like that whacky pastor endorsing McCain. How the heck is McCain going to stop someone from endorsing him.

Now had it been in the regular section now that woulda been a story

Fox jumps too fast sometimes.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

In defense of Obama, something I dont usually do, the endorsement was on the open blog section which was open to blog posters. The site has removed it. Fox ran the story but to be honest it has no teeth.

Taking a huge country like the US, and running a two-party system, this kind of thing is bound to happen. Morons and crazies have to choose between two. Most people are clever enough to realise that an endorsement cannot be controlled by a candidate, and does not change his/her views.
Like you said, news stations love it.

Its like that whacky pastor endorsing McCain. How the heck is McCain going to stop someone from endorsing him.

He can't and he shouldnt stop someone from endorsing him, it's silly and really small-scale.
The difference is he actively sought the endorsement of John Hagee, and expressed honour and admiration for him once he got it. Admiration for the guy who says "all Muslims are programmed to kill, and we can't negotiate with any of them". Imagine if Rev. Wright had said the same thing about Christians.
McCain didn't have to embrace him as a "spiritual guide". Same as Guiliani did with Pat Robertson. Remember that Robertson is on record as saying that 9/11 is America's fault.

[TDK1044]

The proportional representation nature of the Democratic Delegate voting process will mean that when all the remaining States are counted, whether Michigan and Florida are part of that or not, neither Clinton or Obama will have the votes necessary to carry the day.

The Super Delegates will decide it based on arm twisting and promises from the two nominees' Chiefs Of Staff. Obama will argue publically that he has the most States and the most Delegates, and that this is a Delegate race and not a popular vote race. Hillary will argue that she has more of the popular vote and that she wins the large States and he only wins the smaller States.

Come June, Obama will have about an 80 Delegate lead in my view, and it will come down to whether the Super Delegates believe that he of Hillary stands the better chance of beating McCain. Polls taken a week or so before the convention will be critical to the outcome, but I don't think Hillary can win it facing an 80 Delegate deficit going in.

[dean_acheson]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Taking a huge country like the US, and running a two-party system, this kind of thing is bound to happen. Morons and crazies have to choose between two. Most people are clever enough to realise that an endorsement cannot be controlled by a candidate, and does not change his/her views.
Like you said, news stations love it.

He can't and he shouldnt stop someone from endorsing him, it's silly and really small-scale.
The difference is he actively sought the endorsement of John Hagee, and expressed honour and admiration for him once he got it. Admiration for the guy who says "all Muslims are programmed to kill, and we can't negotiate with any of them". Imagine if Rev. Wright had said the same thing about Christians.
McCain didn't have to embrace him as a "spiritual guide". Same as Guiliani did with Pat Robertson. Remember that Robertson is on record as saying that 9/11 is America's fault.

Well, McCain didn't go to Hagee's church for 20 years and dump 20K plus in donations.

Hagee didn't marry him and his second wife.

Wright's comments are a great deal sillier than Mr. Hagee's. Saying something along the lines of the Islamic faith seeming to resort to the sword alot is different than saying that the US government created the AIDs virus to keep the Black community down.

Seems to me that this will be a greater deal of hurt to the great BHO than it will be to McCain, the latter of which is not running on some platform of 'hope' and 'change' and 'kumbya.'

The horrible thing is that BHO can't deal with this in a straight-forward way. That would be for him to say something like:
'hey, basically I'm a mulatto from Hawaii, and after working as a 'community organizer' in Chicago, and then leaving for law school, I realized how ambitious I was to be a big politician. For me to solidify my 'black' credentials, I needed to join an 'authentic' church, so I choose Trinity. Fact, drive a long way from my nice neighborhood to 'worship' there. Now, it would have been impossible without the links to the community that I garned through my attendance at that church and Pastor Wright for me to get elected to the Illinois state senate without this help, so for that, I'm forever greatful. Furthermore, if this President thing doesn't work out, I'll need his help running in Illinios to keep my current job.
Now, I am running for a job in an area a bit more 'ethnically diverse' than the southside of Chicago, namely, the President of the United States. Today I admit that Pastor Wright's ramblings, I have always thought believed a bit loony and are, furthermore unacceptable to my new consituency, which is the entire American people. So I pledge today not to go to church at Trinity and have my daughters attend services in which whitey and the U S of K K K A are regularllly castigated. Furthermore, I also pledge not to let my wife talk about how embarassed she is to be an American, I pledge to salute during the national anthem, and to wear an American flag pin on my lapel."


That's it, but BHO can't say this. Instead he gives a speech in which he says, you can't blame Wright, he's mad because of the 60s. The white community is the same way, since they are mad about losing jobs because of affirmative action, that's why they voted for Reagan. People in this country are mad over race, and by electing me you can help fix the anger. I'm sorry, but the old moral equivalence arguement might work for internet posting boards, but I expect higher from somebody who claims to be leading me to the promised land.

BHO just comes off as another less than slick pol who can't be honest about who he is, or what he wants. The problem with running on a Kumbya platform is that you have to be a bit different kind of pol., which OBH ain't. Besides his skin color, that is. His great problem is that once that new wears off most Americans aren't that interested in letting an unknown quality take the helm, all the illusions to Jack Kennedy nonwithstanding.

[DeepIron]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Interesting... The poll shows Clinton with a 7 point lead nationally....

[TDK1044]

The National poll is like a yoyo. One minute he's up and the next she is. People feed off the 'Headline Of The Day'. Only the polls taken immediately before the convention will really count in my view.

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

The National poll is like a yoyo. One minute he's up and the next she is. People feed off the 'Headline Of The Day'. Only the polls taken immediately before the convention will really count in my view.

What convention?

The democrats cival war convention? :rotfl:

[TDK1044]

The 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver where all of this will play out.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

The National poll is like a yoyo. One minute he's up and the next she is. People feed off the 'Headline Of The Day'. Only the polls taken immediately before the convention will really count in my view.

McCain is over both of them from what I read. Let them go at each other and make a mess of things as McCain quietly prepares his first day in office. He is doing just that with his visit to Iraq.