Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds'

[Tchocky]

New use-of-force resolution introduced in the Senate with a 60-day limit.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...4.html?hp=t1_3

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Well actually depending on the wind conditions at the time your neighbor just might be in your weed killer dispersal zone too.

The point is however that like your weed killer, Agent Orange was deployed to destroy plants, not to injure or kill people. Of course it did turn out to be quite deadly but not immediately enough to be remotely useful as a weapon.

For example it took AO 31 years to kill my father with liver cancer after his exposure to it in 1967 but it didn't stop him from carrying out his military duties or completing his tour over there. It that makes it a weapon it is a damned inefficient one.

It wasn't just deployed to strip cover, it was also deployed to push the peasants out of the countryside and into the cities, thus removing the rural support for the VC. So it was designed to attack crops as well as trees, which meant that it was inevitable that it would get into the food supplies of the rural Vietnamese. It also caused mass migration to the urban areas which sparked a housing crisis and created vast slums around Saigon. So it was deployed with full knowledge and acceptance of collateral damage, which is pretty shaky moral grounds, but c'est la guerre.
In regards to your father, he is one of many victims of AO, and it's affects have manifested themselves in different ways, particularly in Vietnam and other areas where AO was used, it may not have been a swift killer, but it had an affect on both the forces handling it, and those sprayed by it.
I'm not judging, the use of AO and whether it should have been used is a debate that will be had for many decades to come, particularly given the eventual outcome of the war, but in my opinion AO was a chemical based deployment designed to disrupt the lives of not just the enemy but innocent civilians, and that makes it a weapon, a chemical weapon, in my eyes at least, and America was not the only one to use it, we did too in small doses in Malaya, and for all I know it could have been that and not the fingerprint dust that gave my grandfather emphysema. In fact, on the quiet, I'd wager that a lot of the tactics used by the US in Vietnam were likely based on tactics that we'd deployed in Malaya under a similar situation and terrain as that which developed in Vietnam.

[August]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

We really got to get the log out of our own eye first befor removing Assad's speck!

So in other words any nation that has done bad things at some point in it's history has to stand aside and let those things continue elsewhere unabated?

[TLAM Strike]

The RAF has sent six Typhoons to Cyprus. (Making the eastern med more heavily protected by the RAF than the Falklands).


The French have sent two Atlantique patrol planes. Mostly likely for SIGINT work but the fact that they are intended for ASW work is interesting (last I check Syria's Romeos were just hulks).

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

The RAF has sent six Typhoons to Cyprus. (Making the eastern med more heavily protected by the RAF than the Falklands).

Well, you never know, the Argentinians might try to sneak up on Cyprus whilst using the Falklands as a ruse.

Ah well, those Tiffies will get a nice ring-side seat to the show, unless Assad invites us in we're not going to be playing this game.

Aaah, looks like HMS Westminster was just passing through Gib, she's playing ASW with the Italians, so Tireless was probably going to be our TLAM boat if the vote had gone through. I imagine she's still in the area, just in case.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Ah well, those Tiffies will get a nice ring-side seat to the show, unless Assad invites us in we're not going to be playing this game.

That would be the world's shortest phone call.

Assad: Dave mate can you pop over those Tiffies for a bit? The yanks are causing a bit of bother.
Click
Assad: Dave, ...Dave. .. you there?

[Wolferz]

Originally Posted by TarJak

That would be the world's shortest phone call.

Assad: Dave mate can you pop over those Tiffies for a bit? The yanks are causing a bit of bother.
Click
Assad: Dave, ...Dave. .. you there?

Electronic tones followed by electronic voice; " The number you have reached is not in service at this time. If you feel you have reached this recording in error. Please hang up and try your call again."

Originally Posted by August

Well actually depending on the wind conditions at the time your neighbor just might be in your weed killer dispersal zone too.

The point is however that like your weed killer, Agent Orange was deployed to destroy plants, not to injure or kill people. Of course it did turn out to be quite deadly but not immediately enough to be remotely useful as a weapon.

For example it took AO 31 years to kill my father with liver cancer after his exposure to it in 1967 but it didn't stop him from carrying out his military duties or completing his tour over there. It that makes it a weapon it is a damned inefficient one.

Oberon is correct.
From the link already posted by Platapus on chemical warfare treaties.
Recognizing the prohibition, embodied in the pertinent agreements and relevant principles of international law, of the use of herbicides as a method of warfare

[Feuer Frei!]

Putin talking tough:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned America and its allies against taking one-sided action in Syria.
He said any military strikes without UN approval would be an aggression

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23955655


4 September 2013 Last updated at 08:49



Sidenote:
Russia has suspended missile component deliveries to Syria.


Next we have Reuters:

President Barack Obama won the backing of key figures in the U.S. Congress, including Republicans, in his call for limited U.S. strikes on Syria to punish President Bashar al-Assad

And here is the Draft Senate Resolution:
http://live.reuters.com/Event/Syria_9/87331436

SOURCE

Wed Sep 4, 2013 4:44am EDT

[Tchocky]

Putin is also saying he may support strikes based on harder evidence and if backed by the UN.

It may go back to the UNSC after all

[Jimbuna]

I think he'd need to get China to drop their veto first.

[Sammi79]

China wouldn't Veto with solid evidence against Assad I think. They would abstain, as they are pragmatists.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I think he'd need to get China to drop their veto first.

In the Russia-China blockage situation, I got the sense that it was really Russia driving it. I don't see China going it alone on a veto if Russia backs action.

Then again, who can tell

[Wolferz]

Sure, they're all going to back it because a destabilized ME keeps oil prices up.

The Saudis are probably driving this bus. Leaving the door open for our elected reps to ignore our wishes....AGAIN!
BOB SAGET!

[Ducimus]

McCain needs to freaking retire already. He's too old and crotchety now.

Fox news headline:
McCain Pulls Support for Syria Plan
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ke-resolution/

Sounds great right? Nah uh.

McCain, who has long favored stepped-up U.S. involvement in the Syrian civil war, said he opposes the resolution crafted by fellow Sens. Bob Menendez of New Jersey and Bob Corker of Tennessee. The resolution puts a 90-day limit on action and says no American troops can be sent to Syria.

McCain reportedly wants more than cruise missile strikes and "limited" action; he wants to tilt the direction of the civil war. He has, though, said he doesn't want combat troops on the ground in Syria.

What was that old saying.... oh yes..

War is old men talking and young men dying.

This old man needs to retire already.