[REL] RFB/Real Fleet Boat for 1.5

[goose814]

Just a quick question. At the beginning of the thread it says that RFB for SH4 v1.5 is compatible with Natural Sinking Mechanics for 1.4. However, when I went to download Natural Sinking Mechanics for 1.4 it says "THIS WORKS ONLY ON 1.4. DONT USE TOGETHER WITH U-BOAT ADDON IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS I PROMISE". So is it ok to use with the 1.5 patch and RFB or not? Thanks for any help.

Gus

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by goose814

Just a quick question. At the beginning of the thread it says that RFB for SH4 v1.5 is compatible with Natural Sinking Mechanics for 1.4. However, when I went to download Natural Sinking Mechanics for 1.4 it says "THIS WORKS ONLY ON 1.4. DONT USE TOGETHER WITH U-BOAT ADDON IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS I PROMISE". So is it ok to use with the 1.5 patch and RFB or not? Thanks for any help.

Gus

Gus, you can use NSM 4 with RFB v1.5. We're working on a patch currently to make sure NSM integrates properly... I'm one of the RFB Team actively working in it so this is good info...

Be forewarned however, there probably still are some issues and you might get CTDs still. Use at your own risk at this point in time. On the upside, I haven't had any real problems so far...

Be sure to install NSM *before* RFB. In my loadout, NSM is the first mod I load.

[RFB Team]

For those who are having problems with their torpedoes running off-course after loading a saved game, we need more information about what is causing this. Namely we need to know:

• The mods you have enabled and in what order they are enabled
• Torpedo type being fired
• Torpedo settings, i.e., contact/magnetic, speed, depth, angle offset, etc.
• Date of the mission
• Campaign or single mission

Thanks!

[goose814]

DeepIron,

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

Gus

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Alright, this is a pretty small detail, but I've noticed in RFB 1.5 the shaft speeds are excessively high for pretty much all the subs surfaced and submerged (around 700 RPM!).

I remember in "Wahoo" Adm O'Kane mentions Wahoo's redline on the surface at 330 RPM, and in some 1940's sonobuoy training records it states that fleet boats do about 20 RPM per knot (180 RPM at 9 kts submerged and 420 RPM at 21 kts surfaced) with S-boats running about 50 RPM per knot (550 RPM at 11 kts submerged and 725 at 14.5 kts surfaced).

Basically what I'm trying to say is that it'd be nice to set the prop speeds to more reasonable levels (I've currently got my fleet boats at 330 RPM redline surfaced, 180 RPM redline submerged). Of course, the trouble with changing the prop speeds is that the sounds will have to be altered to match...

Other than that, excellent job guys!

[RFB Team]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Alright, this is a pretty small detail, but I've noticed in RFB 1.5 the shaft speeds are excessively high for pretty much all the subs surfaced and submerged (around 700 RPM!).

I remember in "Wahoo" Adm O'Kane mentions Wahoo's redline on the surface at 330 RPM, and in some 1940's sonobuoy training records it states that fleet boats do about 20 RPM per knot (180 RPM at 9 kts submerged and 420 RPM at 21 kts surfaced) with S-boats running about 50 RPM per knot (550 RPM at 11 kts submerged and 725 at 14.5 kts surfaced).

Basically what I'm trying to say is that it'd be nice to set the prop speeds to more reasonable levels (I've currently got my fleet boats at 330 RPM redline surfaced, 180 RPM redline submerged). Of course, the trouble with changing the prop speeds is that the sounds will have to be altered to match...

Other than that, excellent job guys!

My data for the engine RPMs comes from Norman Freidman's book on the pre-1945 American submarines. The S boat engines were rated for 350 RPM at 600 BHP, and the typical fleet sub diesel was rated at 1350 BHP at 720 RPM. Now, maybe I'm missing something there in how I interpeted the data, but that's what I was going off of when I edited the files for each sub.

[Fincuan]

The Fleet Type Submarine Manual from 1946 lists the G.M. 16-278A for 1600 BHP at 750 RPM. The Main Propulsion Diesels manual(also from 1946) probably contains more precise information, but I don't have enough time to browse through it.

Sonobuouy training records aren't a good data source on engine RPM, since, if I interpret this correctly, prop RPM was different from engine RPM:

Originally Posted by Feet Type Submarine Manual

The primary source of power is four main diesel engines. The engines are used to drive four main generators which in turn supply the electric power to drive the four main propulsion motors. Each of the two propellers is driven by two main propulsion motors through a production gear.

...
rated 1,100 kw, 415 volts, 750 rpm. Each generator is cooled by a surface air cooler and generates power for driving the propulsion motors and charging the storage batteries. Each generator is driven by a directly connected diesel engine.

b. Four direct-current propulsion motors: each rated 1,375 hp, 415 volts, 1,300 rpm. Two of these motors are used to drive each propeller, through a reduction gear, at 280 rpm. Each motor is equipped with an air cooler.
c. Two reduction gears: each is single reduction with two pinions driven by two main propulsion motors and a slow speed gear connection to the propeller shaft. Input is 1,300 rpm, output is 280 rpm. This reduction gear is not used on the latest type submarines which are equipped with slow-speed main motors.

edit: Removed the remark of Tench-class having no reduction gear. Looks like they did have it after all.

[TopcatWA]

Originally Posted by RFB Team

For those who are having problems with their torpedoes running off-course after loading a saved game, we need more information about what is causing this. Namely we need to know:

• The mods you have enabled and in what order they are enabled
• Torpedo type being fired
• Torpedo settings, i.e., contact/magnetic, speed, depth, angle offset, etc.
• Date of the mission
• Campaign or single mission

Thanks!

OK. Mods Enabled :
1. NSM 3.1 Classic
2. ROW PE 3.3
3. ROW Sound Effects.v.9.0
4. RFB 1.5.051408
5. RSRD Plus
6. Enviroment 4.5

Type Torpedo - Mk 14.
Torpedo Settings - contact/magnetic, speed slow, depth 10,angle offset 0
Date of Mission - 11th.December 1941
Campaign - American - Asiatic Fleet P Class Sub.

Tried the torpedo patch out & same result with torpedos veering off designated course soon after leaving tubes.

Cheers

[JackMaga]

Originally Posted by RFB Team

For those who are having problems with their torpedoes running off-course after loading a saved game, we need more information about what is causing this. Namely we need to know:

• The mods you have enabled and in what order they are enabled
• Torpedo type being fired
• Torpedo settings, i.e., contact/magnetic, speed, depth, angle offset, etc.
• Date of the mission
• Campaign or single mission

My Mods:
1. NSM 4 Classic
2. ROW PE 3.3
3. RFB 1.5.051408
5. RSRD for RFB


Type Torpedo - Mk 14.
I tried both slow and fast speed and contact contact/magnetic detonators.
Date of Mission - 11th.December 1941
Asiatic Fleet Sargo Class Sub.

The torpedo patch completely solved the issue, both in a new campaign and in my savegames!

[DrBeast]

For those that still experience torpedo problems:
Try deleting ALL files/folders from My Documents\SH4. Then start a new career, as per RFB Team's instructions. That might do the trick.

[vanjast]

ENGINE/SHAFT REVS
--------------------
There's a slight problem with regard to Engine and shaft revs.
As far as I've currently worked out there is a basic graph relating shaft revs to hydrophone signature pulses. If you make the revs to low or too high the hydophone pulse rate flattens out at the low or top end, giving you a problem in determining the speed.

Playing around with the ship revs, I've managed to get a fairly linear range from top to bottom speed.

ENGINE POWER
--------------
I'm not sure of this effect, maybe it has something to do with the acceleration of the ship's speed, but it does extend the ships hydrophone signature down into the lower 1, 2 or 3 knot range - you can now hear the ship. One worry is that setting this value too high might give the ship super 'human' powers - maybe someone has done this already.

To rap up, If one can adjust these values to get decent hydrophone signatures without detrimental side effects, it's not necessary to worry about historical facts.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Okay, well in my original post I was referring to shaft speeds. The diesels did run around 750 RPM but they were only connected to the props (direct-drive) on the S boats. All of the later classes were diesel-electric so the motors ran around 330 RPM at flank speed on the surface while the engines turned generators to power them at 750 RPM.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Okay, well in my original post I was referring to shaft speeds.

Yep

It's right on... ehmmm... the first line of your post. What I wrote still stands though.

[RFB Team]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Okay, well in my original post I was referring to shaft speeds. The diesels did run around 750 RPM but they were only connected to the props (direct-drive) on the S boats. All of the later classes were diesel-electric so the motors ran around 330 RPM at flank speed on the surface while the engines turned generators to power them at 750 RPM.

If you can point me to a source that shows what type of RPM ratings the fleet boat motors ran at, I'd be glad to adjust these values. I've not been able to find a source that shows how many RPM the motors were capable of generating, other than what you've listed above. If you can, could you quote the passage from "Wahoo" that mentions the 330 RPM value?

EDIT: from Fincuan's link:

For surface operation, using the various combinations of armatures and taking power from the main generators, the motors develop power ranging from 20 hp to 2,700 hp per propeller shaft at speeds ranging from approximately 67 rpm to 282 rpm.

For submerged operation, using various combinations of armatures and taking power from the batteries, the motors will develop power ranging from 30 hp to 1,719 hp per propeller shaft, and will give a speed range from 42 to 219 rpm.

[TopcatWA]

Originally Posted by DrBeast

For those that still experience torpedo problems:
Try deleting ALL files/folders from My Documents\SH4. Then start a new career, as per RFB Team's instructions. That might do the trick.

Have tried after deleting existing career new campaign & still have torpedoes veering off desinated course using Mk.14 torpedoes.

Now have installed mod setup:

1.NSM 4.0 Classic
2.ROW PE 3.3
3.ROW Sound Effect 9.0
4.RFB
5.RSRD
6.Enviromental 4.5
7.RFB Torpedo Fix Patch

On 1st new War Patrol of Philippines now find the Mk.14 torpedoes are at last finding their targets. Looks like the patch is working.