US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[ikalugin]

Boycotting would allow the other side win the elections.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Boycotting would allow the other side win the elections.

Exactly. Politics is not a game of chance although luck is involved. No one gets rich playing the stock market in a haphazard manner. No one is successful in pro sports without training or tactics. Why would politics be any different? The means for success in politics is not a secret. Everyone knows the rules. Anyone can get involved. The big problem that always comes up is when people don't like the results of a political contest.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by u crank

Exactly. Politics is not a game of chance although luck is involved. No one gets rich playing the stock market in a haphazard manner. No one is successful in pro sports without training or tactics. Why would politics be any different? The means for success in politics is not a secret. Everyone knows the rules. Anyone can get involved. The big problem that always comes up is when people don't like the results of a political contest.

Well in liberal democracies anyway.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Well in liberal democracies anyway.

Is there any other kind?

[Catfish]

Trump's great friend Viktor Orban of Hungary would say that illiberal democracy is much better
Of course "illiberal democracy" is not democracy as most people understand it, but the right is doing their best to sell it to the masses. It will soon be regarded as a variant of "democracy". Which of cause is BS

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Boycotting would allow the other side win the elections.

Quatsch. It would be a giovenrment that must enact itself without any support by any voter.


If you legitmise life-long fraudtsers and liars, you have no right to criticise them when they act like this - becasue your brought them into a position allowing them to do like this,m and you legitimised them and their acting. Therefore, only those not voting for them and refusing to legitimise them have a right to criticise them, for they try to enforce acts and deeds on the boycottersa that the boycotters never legitimised thme to do.

It is the same old and simply wrong argument that stubbornly gets repated over an dover and over again, that you bring up there. But that does not chnage that it is pointless in its core and essence.

And one of my fsavourite auhtors on the issue, Jason Brennan, adds another fine arugment here:
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...-be-a-disaster

Don’t ask your neighbor to vote. Instead, ask the ignorant and irrational voters, how dare you?

What we have now is a huge bunch of unknowing, uneducated, politically "idiotised" people not knowing anything about the many implications and embedded problems of political themes, legitimsing psychopathic and attention-craving monsters, totalitarian ideologists and demagogues, and brutally egoist narcissists cravign for power and being unscurpulous enough to tell every lie from here to eternity in order to get onto the throne. Lobbyists and networks rule.

Also, see it like this, if you want: does anyone think they would let you vote on anything any anyone if your voting realyl would make a diference to their great scheme of things...?

Finally there is the ourely mathemtical, statistical argment. In a small group of lets say 10 owners of the flats in an appartment house you can tell yourself that your voice in the yearly assembly counts, with a weight of 1/10. But if you are part of a voting going on with your vote just representing 1/10,000,000 as an example, you can hardly convince yourself that your ballot matters. Fact is none of you ever saw the other side winning becasue you refused to give your ballot. Andbhardly has your party ever won because you vited for them. - This is an arugment pourely focussing on quanitty, not on qulaity. The educaiton of the voter to make educated decisions inmstead of just instinct-driven ones, is ignored here.

Stop making fools of yourself and allowing them to treat you as the idiots you behave as. Reject them and their rules and games. Completely. The only reason they tell you you should vote is that they want your acceptance for game and their rules going on, so that you give away your right to criticise them - you cannot legitimately criticise an imposter and liar and cheater if you voted him into office. They do not care for what party you vote for - the yonly want that you vote at all - and submit to their game and playing rules in principle. And you shoud, by now really know the limits of human potentials as well as the underhanded character quality of most career politicians there are. If you have no realised that by now, this is another argument then why you should not be allowed to vote.



The bigger the playing ground polticians are allowed to play on, the bigger the mess they create, and the more dramatic the consequences of their inevitable failure. Thats why I reject the idea of big super-national structures, big and deep states and such, it only helps to hide abuse and corruption, nepotism and secret establishing of lobbies and networks. Politicians pose as if they were superhuman capable and potent of doing and knowing all and everything. This hubris is our all fall. Our believe in the good strong Führer, even if he calls himself somehtign positive, is what leads us into the trap again and again and again. But this time, with globalization and unheared of tools of mass drestrzction and mass killing , the fear of those warning of a global fall, are real and realistic for the first time ever in human history. In past centureies and eras, people ahd the sam efears, but we know by now they did not have the reach and the tools and indeed doom all thre world and all mankind. this now has hcnaged - this time now the threat is real. And we face it still with the submissive servility of peasdant reaidng the lips of their kings?

We need to adapt to an ever chnagign world. We cannot prevent global warning, we cannot limit it annyore due to the immense, amssive self-dynamic in it all, we should not waste our time and ressources in trying that , but we should instea dinvest them to prepare and adapot as best as we can to the ever-chnaging world that the climate change is creating around us and forces us to live in in the future. And like we need to adapt to that process, we also need to learn to adapt to this new globalised world with tools by man that indeed, for the first time ever in his history, cna rip this world and civilization apart. Instead we follow bheavioural recipes of the past, and allow stoneage instincts to still overrule our reason and intellect.

Beside Jason brennan, I recommend to read Jarred Diamond on these issues ("Collapse"). He made a brilliant case for examining the contradiction that you can destroy the world around you, culturally as well as environmentally, for very rational, reasonable reasons and arguments that follow the tradition of the past. The fault is that the past may have found recipes based on conditions and variables that in the present are no longer valid, annulling validity and usefulness of strategies based on them.

Do not vote into office those people that damage you and the world you live in, both the civilization and the environment. Don'T legitimise people that lie and cheat - and never must face any responsibility!!! - and do not allow them to speak in your name and decide on your behalf! Limnit the reach and power of politics to dimensions that human senses can perceive and that human reaosn can overlook.


Political parties should be forbidden. No politician who made doing politics his job for life, shoud be allowed to do poltics. No polticians should be allolwed to serve in whatever a function for longer than two legislation pewriods. No politicians shoudl be allowed to escape respinsibility for his actiosn and deicisons, every polticians should be held full accountable with his property, his fortune and even his life for his record. Just saying "I accept the political responsibility for this mess", is nothing, is a free ride out. And you people buy it...! You beleive in an empoty, meaningless slogan...!

https://reason.com/2012/10/03/your-vote-doesnt-count/

https://reason.com/2019/06/26/dont-w...ratic-debates/

Most people wallow in sentimental memories when they defend voting. Like they wallow in good moods when practicing christmas meetings and rites. Its not as if that would means that Santa Claus suddenly turns into somethign real. Its habit. Its memory. A glorification of childhood past. One got used to it, one does not know it better, one never cared to reflect on it. Parents did it like this. Friends do it like this. Lets feel like in good company when doing it like this ourselves.

Just that it pays off badly for us, and kicks us into the next desaster.The people on the Titanic were in company of theirs as well. And even had live music.

You go voting? How dare you, you should feel ashamed!

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Trump's great friend Viktor Orban of Hungary would say that illiberal democracy is much better
Of course "illiberal democracy" is not democracy as most people understand it, but the right is doing their best to sell it to the masses. It will soon be regarded as a variant of "democracy". Which of cause is BS

I'm not to familiar with European politics but I assume that Viktor Orban has been elected in a free and open election. Why does that make him illiberal? It is the same narrative over and over by people on the left. If they don't like the results they try to delegitimize the outcome. Trump is the shining example of that. Of course the end result of this tactic will be that both sides will engage in it. Not very Liberal or Democratic.

[Platapus]

Trump says that at his fourth of July event there will be "brand new Sherman Tanks"



“And we’re going to have some tanks stationed outside,” “Gotta be pretty careful with the tanks because the roads have a tendency not to like to carry heavy tanks, so we have to put them in certain areas. But we have the brand new Sherman tanks and the brand new Abram tanks, and we have some incredible equipment — military equipment on display. Brand new. And we’re very proud of it”



Brand new Sherman Tanks.....

[Dowly]

[Rockstar]

lol just add it the long and distinguished list of presidential gaffs.

"I would like the government to do all it can to mitigate, then, in understanding, in mutuality of interest, in concern for the common good, our tasks will be solved."- Warren G. Harding

"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan

"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." - George W. Bush

"When the President does it, that means it’s not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon

"R-S-P-E-C-T." Barrack H. Obama

And then I dont think anyone in the history of the United States political arena can compare to the 2020 presidential hopeful Joe Biden. Well, maybe G.W. could.

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-g...ection-1323905

[Mr Quatro]

What? You mean you never heard of Allen Sherman?
He probably donated a couple of new tanks from his private collection.

[August]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

What? You mean you never heard of Allen Sherman?
He probably donated a couple of new tanks from his private collection.

The Alan Sherman who wrote this epic?

Hello Muddah, hello Faddah
Here I am at Camp Grenada
Camp is very entertaining
And they say we'll have some fun if it stops raining
I went hiking with Joe Spivey
He developed poison ivy
You remember Leonard Skinner
He got Ptomaine poisoning last night after dinner
All the counselors hate the waiters
And the lake has alligators
And the head coach wants no sissies
So he reads to us from something called Ulysses
Now I don't want this should scare ya'
But my bunkmate has Malaria
You remember Jeffery Hardy
They're about to organize a searching party
Take me home, oh Muddah, Faddah
Take me home, I hate Grenada
Don't leave me out in the forest where
I might get eaten by a bear

Take me home, I promise I will
Not make noise, or mess the house with
Other boys, oh please don't make me stay
I've been here one whole day
Dearest Fadduh, Darling Muddah
How's my precious little bruddah
Let me come home if you miss me
I would even let Aunt Bertha hug and kiss me
Wait a minute, it's stopped hailing
Guys are swimming, guys are sailing
Playing baseball, gee that's bettah
Muddah, Faddah kindly disregard this letter

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

The Alan Sherman who wrote this epic?

All day, all night, Cary Grant!
All I hear from my wife is Cary Grant!
What can he do that I can't?
Big deal! Big star! Cary Grant!

[vienna]

We are a lot of old gits here, quoting and referring to Allan Sherman...


...now, excuse me while I go back to binge listening to Tom Lehrer, and I've still got to get to those Vaughn Meader recordings...







<O>

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by vienna

I've still got to get to those Vaughn Meader recordings...

First Family Forever!

Yes, children, there was a time when making fun of JFK was big business.

I remember reading an article at the time, and one nightclub comic had this great line: "I will be re-elected in 1964. My brother Bobby will be elected in 1968 and 1972. My brother Teddy will be elected in 1976 and 1980. Then it will be 1984 and no one will care anymore!"