Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[les green01]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

@ Jim. Thank you Sir.

The intent is Irrelevant. The U.S signed on as a Guarantor's of Ukraine's security and sovereignty. The U.S should live up to it's agreements. I agree that we shouldn't be the world's policeman. Btw, who said the Ukraine was an unstable Government ?

all the world has to do is look at history and seen how the feds treated the natives and words to them but yes a man gives his word and a handshake should keep it and honor it so i don't believe we should abandon ukraine

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

@ Jim. Thank you Sir.

The intent is Irrelevant. The U.S signed on as a Guarantor's of Ukraine's security and sovereignty. The U.S should live up to it's agreements. I agree that we shouldn't be the world's policeman. Btw, who said the Ukraine was an unstable Government ?

I suspect the aftermath will lead many western countries to have doubts regarding the US as a trustworthy ally.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

Principles are fine but we are dealing with an unhinged individual with a nuclear arsenal unlike thank goodness Hitler. Trump is not Putin's friend, probably loathes him but he has to be able to communicate with him. All sides aren't fully what they seem. This situation is so serious its complexity is virtually indescribable, like pulling pieces from a puzzle trying not to set off a bomb.

It's very true this is a complex Issue. However, the U.S also possesses a Nuclear arsenal that can lay waste to Russia many times over. However, The fallout from a Nuclear exchange would destroy much of the planet. I think Putin feels that Trump is very unpredictable. I think Trump and Putin loathe each other and I don't think any kind of a deal with Putin is possible.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I suspect the aftermath will lead many western countries to have doubts regarding the US as a trustworthy ally.

It's sad to say but I think you're right. I really can't blame them for feeling that way, either.

Originally Posted by les green01

all the world has to do is look at history and seen how the feds treated the natives and words to them but yes a man gives his word and a handshake should keep it and honor it so i don't believe we should abandon ukraine

I'm very much in agreement, les.

[Jimbuna]

Trump talks on the phone with Putin: it lasted about hour and half

On Tuesday, March 18, U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian dictator Vladimir Putin are having a telephone conversation.

This is reported by Censor.NET with reference to Reuters.

"U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin began telephone talks on Tuesday, which Washington hopes will convince Moscow to agree to a ceasefire in the war in Ukraine and move toward a final end to the three-year conflict," the report said.

A White House official said that Trump and Putin began talking on the phone at 10:00 a.m. ET, and the talks are ongoing.

"The conversation is going well and is still ongoing," Dan Scavino, the White House deputy chief of staff, wrote in a post on the social network X.

The White House later reported that Putin and Trump had been talking for over an hour.

Trump will address the press with comments immediately after the conversation with Putin.

Updated

According to NBC News and Sky News, U.S. President Donald Trump had a phone conversation with Vladimir Putin. It lasted about an hour and a half. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541855

EU will never recognize Russia’s illegal occupation of Ukrainian territories - Mathernova

The European Union will never recognize Russia's illegal annexation and occupation of Ukraine's territories.

This was stated by the EU Ambassador to Ukraine Katarina Mathernova on the social network X, Censor.NET reports.

"Russia is trying to redraw the borders by force. Sovereignty and territorial integrity are protected by international law and are not subject to negotiation," she said.

Mathernova emphasized that the European Union does not and will never recognize Russia's illegal annexation and occupation of Ukrainian territories.

"Crimea, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk are Ukraine," the EU Ambassador added.

As a reminder, according to a Forsa poll, 54% of German citizens support the idea of territorial concessions to Ukraine for the sake of peace, while 36% oppose it. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541876

Russia is preparing for future confrontations with European countries – von der Leyen

Russia is preparing for future military conflicts with democratic countries in Europe.

This was stated by the President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen during a speech at the Royal Danish Military Academy in Copenhagen, Censor.NET reports.

According to her, Russia is preparing for confrontation while the United States is refocusing its attention on the Indo-Pacific region.

She emphasized that Russia has "significantly expanded" its military-industrial production capacity.

"These investments are fueling its war of aggression in Ukraine while preparing it for future confrontation with European democracies," she said.

Ursula von der Leyen emphasized the gravity of the situation and noted that Europe needs to remain vigilant against Russia's growing military ambitions. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3541874

[Dargo]

JUST IN: Key Takeaways from the Putin-Trump Call (according to Kremlin):

• Putin supported Trump's proposal for a mutual 30-day halt in Russian and Ukrainian strikes on energy infrastructure and has instructed the military accordingly.
• Putin responded constructively to Trump's initiative on ensuring the security of shipping in the Black Sea.
• Putin reaffirmed Russia’s commitment to a peaceful resolution of the conflict in Ukraine during the conversation with Trump.
• Russia will hand over 23 severely wounded Ukrainian soldiers to Kyiv.
• Russia and the U.S. will establish expert groups to work on a settlement in Ukraine.

Additional Statements from the Kremlin:

• Putin told Trump that “the key condition for preventing escalation of the Ukrainian conflict must be the complete cessation of foreign military aid and intelligence-sharing with Kyiv.”
• The Kremlin emphasized that “any settlement in Ukraine must address the root causes of the crisis and take into account Russia's legitimate security interests.”
• Putin expressed readiness to work jointly on a sustainable resolution for Ukraine.
• A prisoner exchange between Russia and Ukraine will take place on Wednesday, based on a 175-for-175 formula, Putin informed Trump.

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1902050588558250124

So not the whole front what Ukraine proposed, Putin is playing the long game.
Kremlin sources say the call with Trump went “very well.”
Translation: They played him like a banjo.

[Jimbuna]

I was hoping more to agree on than disagree.

[Skybird]

In this phone call, Putin has prepared the thinking field and then sown the desired fruits of thought. Now he just has to wait until Trump blossoms and sprouts the sown fruit.

Then Putin will harvest.

At the cost of Ukraine.

And to Trump's delight. Useful idiot.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The intent is Irrelevant. The U.S signed on as a Guarantor's of Ukraine's security and sovereignty. The U.S should live up to it's agreements. I agree that we shouldn't be the world's policeman. Btw, who said the Ukraine was an unstable Government ?

you don't read very well I said possible, and was speaking of the thoughts at the time of the end of the cold war and Ukraine gaining independence. Yugoslavia was descending into civil war, the caucuses were a mess, and at the time there was a feeling that Ukraine could fall into chaos and nobody wanted wanted operable nuclear weapons in the area under control of unknown entity.

And while you all think the U.S. promised a "Security Guarantee" to Ukraine, it in fact did not, the wording was changed to "Security Assurance". And while that sounds like a distinction without a difference, in the land of Foreign Policy it's not.

U.S. State Department lawyers made a distinction between "security guarantee" and "security assurance", referring to the security guarantees that were desired by Ukraine in exchange for non-proliferation. "Security guarantee" would have implied the use of military force in assisting its non-nuclear parties attacked by an aggressor (such as Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty for NATO members) while "security assurance" would simply specify the non-violation of these parties' territorial integrity. In the end, a statement was read into the negotiation record that the (according to the U.S. lawyers) lesser sense of the English word "assurance" would be the sole implied translation for all appearances of both terms in all three language versions of the statement

[Skybird]

International media seem to agree that Putin gave his American Mini-me just enough so that he has something to hold in his hand and wave with at home. Its pretty much unsubstantial, in the night there already were attacks on energy infrastructure again.


From a Ukrainian perspective I would rate first comments from the US practically as a hidden threat.



Europpe miust be alamred as well, for Europe's attitude on supporting Ukraine colldies heads-on with what the Big Don wants.



There is also a widenign sense of alertness in NATO over the so-called US kill switch for its F-35 it sold to unsuspecting customers.



On a side-note, Germany and Norweay have signed a treaty over buoilding a new joint venture sub amrine, the type 212 CD (CD=common design). IOt wil, eb signifi8cantl ybiuger than the 212A, but prive the same or even lower reflection silhouette agaunst active poginging while maintaing at least the same silence level as the 212A which is feared for its almost total soundlessness. The 212CD also is said to be undetectable by MAD sensors. - Now, this is the way to go. European coperaiton prjects, but with not as many particiapnts as possibe, but only 2, maximum 3 partners, that way you can hopefully reduce wear-and-tear in planning phase when too many demands and ideas from too many sides collide and endlessly delay th eproject therefore, also pushign the costs upwards this way. However, jiust two partners are not guarantee as wlel, as the difficult French-German cooperation attempts also illustrate. I would also avoid walking into the same trap with the French defense industry as we did with the American indiustry - becoming too dependent on the French and their still absurdly strong imperial self-awareness. And certainly no Paris kill-switch, please!

[Skybird]

Putin just called Trump's bluff, and completely outmanouvered him - effortlessly.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/18/e...tam/index.html

[mapuc]

Is Trump aware of this ?

If so, what would his answer be ?

Markus

[Dargo]

Putin thinks he has won this war in Ukraine and the war against the world delusional, on the other side there is a same delusional leader who thinks he is "The Peacemaker" both will not accomplish anything on the backs of many horrible deads. There will be no peace that is based on submission, no Cossack will accept that they did not for centuries after millions of deads.

[Skybird]

Obviously he is not, otherwise he probably wouldn't have run his mouth so full. After all, he let Putin show him up. Once again.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Obviously he is not, otherwise he probably wouldn't have run his mouth so full. After all, he let Putin show him up. Once again.

Putin:Krasnov, you're not in a very good position right now. You don't have the cards right now. Even if you did, you're far too stupid to use them.

[mapuc]

In other words, the Joke is on Trump.

Markus