Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2 - Page 455

Jimbuna · 03-12-25, 01:06 PM

Skybird · 03-12-25, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo

Yes it has cost a lot of resources and troops for Russia, North Korea and military, this was an opportunity that any army in the world would act on. If you see a weak spot you attack that was/is the whole story, any army would make that decision.

No, it was a mistake. They suffered serious losses themselves, too, and different to Russia they could not afford their losses like the Russians can afford theirs. The units they used in Kurks were missed in the Eastern hotspots of fighting - and there they paid.

They paid too much for too little compensation for their losses. The costs-versus-gains ratio does not compute well.

Skybird · 03-12-25, 01:33 PM

[NTV] In Saudi Arabia, Ukraine and the United States reached surprising agreements after significant tensions. The path to this agreement was apparently not easy. There were reportedly difficult moments during the hours-long meeting. There was even talk of an impasse.

Ukraine has provided insights into the recent talks with the United States in Saudi Arabia. Foreign Ministry spokesperson Heorhii Tykhyi declined to go into detail so as not to "cause any damage," but hinted that the surprising agreements were anything but easy to reach.

In a lengthy post on Facebook, the spokesperson wrote that the negotiations lasted eight hours almost continuously. "Especially in the final hours, when fatigue is already palpable, a way out of an impasse suddenly becomes possible—or even a difficult compromise," the spokesperson said. "The winner is the one who survives the last one and a half kilometers through sheer willpower and strength of character."

According to Tykhyi, it was important to keep emotions under control. This had already been one of the most important challenges even before the talks. "One that, in my opinion, we all handled well."

The previously escalated meeting between Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, US President Donald Trump and his Vice President J.D. Vance at the White House had caused major tensions between Kyiv and Washington. The presidents were not personally present at the negotiations in Saudi Arabia. Kyiv's head of state, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in particular, had made an effort to calm the situation after the scandal, even though he had been paraded before the world's eyes at the White House.

Tykhyi cites numerous articles published the previous evening, citing anonymous sources, as one of the reasons for the success of the talks in Saudi Arabia. This was a kind of "coded dialogue" between the key players. "Expectations, attempts to promote or torpedo the process, random statements or interpretations – all of these played a role."

The composition of the negotiating teams, including diplomats and military representatives, was also said to have been extremely important. Everyone behaved extremely "professionally, principledly, and wisely." Tykhyi recounts a particularly difficult moment toward the end of the negotiations. Foreign Minister Andriy Sybiha looked at him, and his expression conveyed both "incredible" and "everything will be fine."

Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is said to have played the decisive role despite his absence. "He led the delegation in such a way that it maintained an iron defense of several key positions," reports the Foreign Ministry spokesperson. He considers the negotiations among the most interesting he has ever participated in. However, according to Tykhyi, all details of the meeting could only be revealed in many years.

Many observers consider the results of the talks a major success for Ukraine because they succeeded in persuading the US to resume military aid and provide intelligence.

By agreeing to a 30-day ceasefire, Kyiv has also made unmistakably clear the commitment to peace, which Washington has vehemently demanded. "The ball is now in Russia's court," said US Secretary of State Marco Rubio afterwards.

Jimbuna · 03-12-25, 01:34 PM

Vance on talks between US and Russia: they will be held by phone and in person

Quote:

US Vice President J.D. Vance said that contacts between the United States and Russia will take place in the coming days in person and by phone.

He said this in the Oval Office during a meeting between US President Donald Trump and Irish Prime Minister Michael Martin, CNN reports, Censor.NET informs.

"The talks will be held over the phone and in person with some of our representatives over the next few days," Vance said, without adding any details. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3540824

Turkey hopes that Russia will react constructively to idea of ceasefire - Erdogan

Quote:

Turkey considers Ukraine's agreement to cease fire with Russia for 30 days to be positive and important and hopes that Moscow will respond constructively.

This was stated by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at a joint press conference in Ankara with Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, Le Figaro newspaper reports, Censor.NET informs.

"Now we hope that Russia will respond constructively," the Turkish leader said.

As a reminder, at the talks in Jeddah on March 11, Ukraine expressed its readiness to accept the US proposal to immediately introduce a temporary, 30-day ceasefire. It can be extended by mutual agreement of the parties, subject to acceptance and simultaneous implementation by the Russian Federation. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3540808

Jimbuna · 03-12-25, 01:36 PM

French and British Defense Ministers discuss continued support for Ukrainian Armed Forces

Quote:

On the sidelines of the Paris Defense and Strategy Forum, French Defense Minister Sébastien Lecorneuil and British Defense Minister John Healey discussed security guarantees for Ukraine.

This was reported by Censor.NET with reference to Interfax-Ukraine.

"Thanks to the leadership of our two heads of state and government, France and the United Kingdom will remain committed to a just and lasting peace in Ukraine. Meeting with my British counterpart John Haley last night on the sidelines of the Paris Defense and Strategy Forum.

Following yesterday's meeting of the Chiefs of Defence of the Volunteer Armed Forces in Paris, discussions on security guarantees for Ukraine in the presence of our respective Chiefs of Defence, General Thierry Burkhardt and Admiral Tony Radakin. The first of these will be continued support for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to ensure their long-term defense of the country," Lecorneu wrote on social network X. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3540799

Putin may demand halt of arms supplies to Ukraine as condition of ceasefire - Bloomberg

Quote:

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin may demand the cessation of arms supplies to Ukraine as a condition for a ceasefire in the war against Ukraine.

This was reported by Bloomberg, citing sources close to the Kremlin, Censor.NET reports.

According to the agency's interlocutors, Putin will try to stall because he wants to achieve more favor able conditions for himself.

Another source told Bloomberg that Russian officials have not discussed with the American side a specific deal, which the Ukrainian delegation agreed on March 11 in Saudi Arabia. Krell considers the proposed terms unacceptable, the article says.

In addition, according to one of the sources, the Kremlin may also demand that Ukraine cease supplying weapons as a condition for a ceasefire.

As a reminder, at the talks in Jeddah on March 11, Ukraine expressed its readiness to accept the US proposal to immediately introduce a temporary, 30-day ceasefire. It can be extended by mutual agreement of the parties, subject to acceptance and simultaneous implementation by the Russian Federation. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3540794

Dargo · 03-12-25, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

No, it was a mistake. They suffered serious losses themselves, too, and different to Russia they could not afford their losses like the Russians can afford theirs. The units they used in Kurks were missed in the Eastern hotspots of fighting - and there they paid.

They paid too much for too little compensation for their losses. The costs-versus-gains ratio does not compute well.

If you make that kinda assumptions, you have to provide the real "source" not what is printed in the media. Nobody, you or me can know what is or not is lost and this oh Ukraine cannot... They planned, intergraded all those systems (that some have said ohhh that they never could do it is too complex) into their army with a good result and faster than we could do. Planning an offensive is no sandkasten spielen they have war gamed this before. Plans can go wrong, sure, but you still underestimate Ukraine because you do not have all the data. Russia is scraping the barrels, and you still have a costs-versus-gains ratio that is based on media sources, if the Russian publishes what they really have or lose they are notorious liars for centuries.

Dargo · 03-12-25, 02:34 PM

mapuc · 03-12-25, 02:35 PM

Maybe it was a success in the long term or maybe it wasn't a success-I can't tell.

It could have been a plan on using Kursk invasion as a trade for ground in Ukraine-This is gone now...Which is a lost if this was the reason for the invasion in Kursk from the start.

Will Ukraine try a similar tactics in the future-Invade part of Russia ?

Markus

Dargo · 03-12-25, 03:04 PM

Rheinmetall says it could take over idle Volkswagen plants to produce tanks

Rheinmetall is considering taking over one of VolkswagenÂ’s soon-to-be idle plants, as the growing arms maker scours Germany for extra production capacity while struggling carmakers scale back. Chief executive Armin Papperger on Wednesday said VWÂ’s plant in OsnabrÃ¼ck was a Â“good fitÂ” for Rheinmetall operations, but stressed any decision to acquire idle car factories would depend on securing more tank orders.

VWÂ’s OsnabrÃ¼ck plant is one of three set to become idle within the next two years after the carmaker decided in December to halve production capacity in the country because of a slowdown in European car sales. Papperger said it was Â“far more complexÂ” to build something than to use Â“something thatÂ’s already thereÂ”. He said Rheinmetall was in Â“constant conversationÂ” with VW because of a military trucks joint venture with the carmakerÂ’s MAN Truck & Bus... https://www.ft.com/content/f4bb94b3-...b-bbba26d0f7ec

Russian 'Groundhog Day'

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...862843475.html

America Turns to Ukraine to Build Better Drones

American defense startups have teamed up with Ukrainian manufacturers to develop advanced drones for the US military, according to The Wall Street Journal.

The media notes that U.S. startups have spent billions of venture capital dollars in hopes of developing the small drones that the Pentagon says it needs for future conflicts, but many have produced only expensive aircraft that donÂ’t fly very well. Ukrainian drone makers, meanwhile, have mastered mass-producing drones despite limited resources and are looking for new customers and capital. Now, both sides are coming together, and this cooperation is attracting the attention of the U.S. Department of Defense.

Â“No American company is keeping up with Ukraine. Their developments work perfectly, and they have the best laboratory for testing all models in combat conditions,Â” Nathan Mintz, co-founder of the Southern California startup CX2, which last year signed an agreement to install its software and sensors on Ukrainian drones for combat testing, stated... https://mil.in.ua/en/news/america-tu...better-drones/

mapuc · 03-12-25, 05:53 PM

Markus

Skybird · 03-12-25, 07:19 PM

Putin has arrived in persona in Kursk. That he vists the front is not an often seen event. While the ukrainian supreme command ominously indicates it has ordered or mulls the full withdrawel from Kursk, Putin has given order to fight down and drive out the few remaining Ukrainian troops.
The Ukrainians' hopes of having a bargaining chip to exchange territory for possible negotiations have thus been dashed. If one is optimistically minded, one might be tempted to ask whether Putin's trip is a signal that he might accept the ceasefire temporarily after all, once the Kursk nuisance is out of the way and the path to Russia's unrestricted imperial demands on Ukraine is cleared.

Otto Harkaman · 03-13-25, 02:16 AM

Skybird · 03-13-25, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dargo

If you make that kinda assumptions, you have to provide the real "source" not what is printed in the media. Nobody, you or me can know what is or not is lost and this oh Ukraine cannot... They planned, intergraded all those systems (that some have said ohhh that they never could do it is too complex) into their army with a good result and faster than we could do. Planning an offensive is no sandkasten spielen they have war gamed this before. Plans can go wrong, sure, but you still underestimate Ukraine because you do not have all the data. Russia is scraping the barrels, and you still have a costs-versus-gains ratio that is based on media sources, if the Russian publishes what they really have or lose they are notorious liars for centuries.

Your sources - media - are not better than mine. The media refer to bloggers. If war bloggers from both sides agree, that gets my raised eyebrow. You are sceptical of people like Reisner, ignoring how very often he was right. I do not listen to people like Hodgson anymore, and many others, because they were always wrong in tbe first 18 months or so - and they disappeared from the media, almost. Rightly so.

Jimbuna · 03-13-25, 07:46 AM

An aide to Vladimir Putin dismisses a short-term ceasefire with Kyiv, saying it is "nothing but a temporary respite" for Ukraine

It comes as Donald Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow ahead of US-Russia talks on a 30-day ceasefire proposal

Russia's military says it has recaptured Sudzha, a key town in the Kursk region that was previously taken by Ukrainian forces

Earlier the Kremlin said it was the final stage of the operation to drive Ukraine from territory it seized across the border

Putin made a surprise visit to Kursk on Wednesday. The head of Ukraine's military, Oleksandr Syrsky, also indicated that some of its troops were withdrawing from Kursk

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says the country is "determined" to work "as quickly as possible" with its partners towards peace. Meanwhile, Putin has yet to comment on the offer

Jimbuna · 03-13-25, 07:56 AM

Russia has set out its maximalist demands for peaceful resolution to war in Ukraine - WP

Quote:

The Washington Post has obtained access to a document prepared by a Moscow think tank closely linked to the FSB, which contains Russia's demands for an end to the war in Ukraine.

This was stated in the publication on March 12, Censor.NET informs.

The document, written in February 2023, reveals the Kremlin's maximalist positions, which not only reject previous peace initiatives but also define new tough conditions for ending the conflict.

One of the main demands in the document is that a peaceful settlement of the war in Ukraine cannot take place before 2026. Russia rejects the possibility of peace agreements that would provide for the return of the captured territories to Ukraine. In the absence of official recognition of Russian sovereignty over them, the probability of a renewal of the conflict in the medium term remains high. This calls into question the possibility of a final peaceful settlement without the implementation of these demands.

The document also contains proposals to strengthen Russia's negotiating position. In particular, Russia plans to increase tensions between the United States, China, and the European Union to use this to its advantage. It is noted that Russia may offer the United States access to its minerals, in particular in the occupied Ukrainian territories, which looks like an attempt to destroy the proposed agreement between Ukraine and the United States on the development of natural resources.

The document also suggests that Russia normalizes relations with the United States through the restoration of diplomatic relations, in particular, by appointing a new ambassador to the United States, Alexander Darchiev. In addition, it is indicated that Russia will agree not to deploy its medium-range ballistic missiles, "Oreshnik" in Belarus, in exchange for the fact that the United States will not deploy new missile systems in Europe.

Regarding the issue of arms supplies, the document contains a demand for the United States to stop supplying weapons to Ukraine, in exchange for which Russia undertakes to stop supplying weapons to its allies in countries considered "unfriendly". However, it is noted that the implementation of this demand is difficult.

The document rejects peace initiatives aimed at territorial concessions by Ukraine, including the renunciation of captured territories in favor of Russia. It also categorically rejects holding elections in Ukraine in which pro-Russian parties would participate and calls for the "dismantling" of the current Kiev regime.

It is noted that the presence of peacekeeping forces in Ukraine is also considered unnecessary since, in Russia's opinion, these forces would be under "serious Western influence." The preservation of a large Ukrainian army and constant support for its equipment by the United States are unacceptable to the Kremlin.

The document also calls for the further fragmentation of Ukraine, proposing the creation of a buffer zone in the northeast of the country on the border with the Bryansk and Belgorod regions of Russia, as well as a demilitarized zone south of Crimea, which would affect the Odesa region. Source: https://censor.net/en/n3540934

03-12-25, 01:06 PM	#6811
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,726 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-12-25, 01:33 PM	#6813
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,679 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	[NTV] In Saudi Arabia, Ukraine and the United States reached surprising agreements after significant tensions. The path to this agreement was apparently not easy. There were reportedly difficult moments during the hours-long meeting. There was even talk of an impasse. Ukraine has provided insights into the recent talks with the United States in Saudi Arabia. Foreign Ministry spokesperson Heorhii Tykhyi declined to go into detail so as not to "cause any damage," but hinted that the surprising agreements were anything but easy to reach. In a lengthy post on Facebook, the spokesperson wrote that the negotiations lasted eight hours almost continuously. "Especially in the final hours, when fatigue is already palpable, a way out of an impasse suddenly becomes possible—or even a difficult compromise," the spokesperson said. "The winner is the one who survives the last one and a half kilometers through sheer willpower and strength of character." According to Tykhyi, it was important to keep emotions under control. This had already been one of the most important challenges even before the talks. "One that, in my opinion, we all handled well." The previously escalated meeting between Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, US President Donald Trump and his Vice President J.D. Vance at the White House had caused major tensions between Kyiv and Washington. The presidents were not personally present at the negotiations in Saudi Arabia. Kyiv's head of state, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in particular, had made an effort to calm the situation after the scandal, even though he had been paraded before the world's eyes at the White House. Tykhyi cites numerous articles published the previous evening, citing anonymous sources, as one of the reasons for the success of the talks in Saudi Arabia. This was a kind of "coded dialogue" between the key players. "Expectations, attempts to promote or torpedo the process, random statements or interpretations – all of these played a role." The composition of the negotiating teams, including diplomats and military representatives, was also said to have been extremely important. Everyone behaved extremely "professionally, principledly, and wisely." Tykhyi recounts a particularly difficult moment toward the end of the negotiations. Foreign Minister Andriy Sybiha looked at him, and his expression conveyed both "incredible" and "everything will be fine." Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is said to have played the decisive role despite his absence. "He led the delegation in such a way that it maintained an iron defense of several key positions," reports the Foreign Ministry spokesperson. He considers the negotiations among the most interesting he has ever participated in. However, according to Tykhyi, all details of the meeting could only be revealed in many years. Many observers consider the results of the talks a major success for Ukraine because they succeeded in persuading the US to resume military aid and provide intelligence. By agreeing to a 30-day ceasefire, Kyiv has also made unmistakably clear the commitment to peace, which Washington has vehemently demanded. "The ball is now in Russia's court," said US Secretary of State Marco Rubio afterwards. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-12-25, 02:35 PM	#6818
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,543 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Maybe it was a success in the long term or maybe it wasn't a success-I can't tell. It could have been a plan on using Kursk invasion as a trade for ground in Ukraine-This is gone now...Which is a lost if this was the reason for the invasion in Kursk from the start. Will Ukraine try a similar tactics in the future-Invade part of Russia ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

03-12-25, 05:53 PM	#6820
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,543 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

03-12-25, 07:19 PM	#6821
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,679 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Putin has arrived in persona in Kursk. That he vists the front is not an often seen event. While the ukrainian supreme command ominously indicates it has ordered or mulls the full withdrawel from Kursk, Putin has given order to fight down and drive out the few remaining Ukrainian troops. The Ukrainians' hopes of having a bargaining chip to exchange territory for possible negotiations have thus been dashed. If one is optimistically minded, one might be tempted to ask whether Putin's trip is a signal that he might accept the ceasefire temporarily after all, once the Kursk nuisance is out of the way and the path to Russia's unrestricted imperial demands on Ukraine is cleared. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

03-13-25, 02:16 AM	#6822
Otto Harkaman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Lexington, Kentucky Posts: 1,183 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	__________________ "If you want to know the age of the Earth, look upon the sea in a storm." -Joseph Conrad USS Pompano (SS-181) https://www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-pompano-181.htm

03-13-25, 07:46 AM	#6824
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,726 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	An aide to Vladimir Putin dismisses a short-term ceasefire with Kyiv, saying it is "nothing but a temporary respite" for Ukraine It comes as Donald Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff is in Moscow ahead of US-Russia talks on a 30-day ceasefire proposal Russia's military says it has recaptured Sudzha, a key town in the Kursk region that was previously taken by Ukrainian forces Earlier the Kremlin said it was the final stage of the operation to drive Ukraine from territory it seized across the border Putin made a surprise visit to Kursk on Wednesday. The head of Ukraine's military, Oleksandr Syrsky, also indicated that some of its troops were withdrawing from Kursk Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky says the country is "determined" to work "as quickly as possible" with its partners towards peace. Meanwhile, Putin has yet to comment on the offer __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!