U-BOOT_HAHD Official Thread - Page 45

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper7

Sure easiest method is to edit the mission with notepad.
Open up fletcher.mis and edit the highlighted:

I'll re-upload the mission with ideal weather and visibilty conditions in 5mins

Hi mate,

Thank for the mission editor because i am not to familiar with it so far

Best regards Hans

SquareSteelBar · 03-12-11, 01:49 PM

Is somebody interested in a german translated SH3 MissionEditor ?

03-12-11, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Witteman

Hi mate,

I understand what you show with the seafort but i tried it on turret for the Fletcher and it doesn't work probably because different files structure or the way the Fletcher managed the instances guns.

It is a possibility that the only option will be to have 5 differents turrets models to get each one displaying a unique texture.

If i am wrong just show me the same result on the Fletcher turret like each one with a different color just plain color will do because it is fast and easy to do

Edit: I just open the LAA maunsell2,dat and it is exactly what i though not the same file structure on the LAA maunsell2 each tower have it own 3d node so it is easy to assign any different texture to it but on the Fletcher guns it is a different story unfortunatly.

Best regards Hans

One 3D model of the Turret assigned to 2 different Nodes in the same dat.
Each uses a different texture.

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

One 3D model of the Turret assigned to 2 different Nodes in the same dat.
Each uses a different texture.

Hi mate,

Thank for showing the result but i am still confused about the EQU cfg do i have to point each single node of the turret in the EQU cfg?

And by cloning these nodes will they be interpreted as instances by the engine?

Best regards Hans

03-12-11, 02:14 PM

As I did a quick renameing of the New Node in the guns.dat file,
The eqp file must call the new Gun Node yes.

Here's the eqp calls.

[Equipment 1]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=381mm_Regia_B
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19480601
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=M02
LinkName=381mm_Regia_B1
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19480601

381mm_Regia_B1 is the New Node.
But both use the same 3D model.

You'd need to add to the sim and zon files also to make it workable in Game.

On loading the Game, only 1 3D Model is loaded.
On rendering a view, I'm sure the Game would build however many versions are called.
Just like haveing 3 of the same ships in view.
1 Model, 3 instances.

And there is a precedent of this technique in Stock SH3.
I don't remember where.
All I did was take it to an extreme.

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

As I did a quick renameing of the New Node in the guns.dat file,
The eqp file must call the new Gun Node yes.

Here's the eqp calls.

[Equipment 1]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=381mm_Regia_B
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19480601
[Equipment 2]
NodeName=M02
LinkName=381mm_Regia_B1
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19480601

381mm_Regia_B1 is the New Node.
But both use the same 3D model.

You'd need to add to the sim and zon files also to make it workable in Game.

On loading the Game, only 1 3D Model is loaded.
On rendering a view, I'm sure the Game would build however many versions are called.
Just like haveing 3 of the same ships in view.
1 Model, 3 instances.

And there is a precedent of this technique in Stock SH3.
I don't remember where.
All I did was take it to an extreme.

Hi mate,

Ok now it is getting interesting a thousand thank mate without you i would be struggling the rest of the day

And it give me new idea to optimized to the max my new interior

I know some time my English is not enough to express myself so sorry for the language barrier.

Best regards Hans

03-12-11, 03:37 PM

It's no problem Hans.

I was a bit surprise many did not take advantage of this technique long ago!

It certainly has many advantages if applied correctly and with some imagination.

For instance,
Any Turret could have adaptive textures based on the year to match the Ships texture.
You just create the Sub Nodes with unique names and textures and do the eqp stuff!

As you do not need a 1024 X 1024 texture for the Turrets?
Multiple textures are better then multiple 3D Models.
As you would be doing the textures anyway!

Taken to extreme effects?
It's a system demand lowering technique.

When GWX 4 for SH4 was under process?
We actually discussed, and started, building Library files for ship parts.
So each Ship would not have an anchor in it's model for example.
But a node to place the anchor which would be called by the eqp.
So total Verts would drop drastically at Game loading!

Imagine the total saveings when Masts and such were done this way!

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

It's no problem Hans.

I was a bit surprise many did not take advantage of this technique long ago!

It certainly has many advantages if applied correctly and with some imagination.

For instance,
Any Turret could have adaptive textures based on the year to match the Ships texture.
You just create the Sub Nodes with unique names and textures and do the eqp stuff!

As you do not need a 1024 X 1024 texture for the Turrets?
Multiple textures are better then multiple 3D Models.
As you would be doing the textures anyway!

Taken to extreme effects?
It's a system demand lowering technique.

When GWX 4 for SH4 was under process?
We actually discussed, and started, building Library files for ship parts.
So each Ship would not have an anchor in it's model for example.
But a node to place the anchor which would be called by the eqp.
So total Verts would drop drastically at Game loading!

Imagine the total saveings when Masts and such were done this way!

Hi mate,

Indeed it finally explain how instances nodes are working in s3d editor and it is a crucial part of optimizing this should be put in a sticky somewhere for others modders to see

The obscure part for me was when you clone the turret you just remap id for it and you delete the 3d node model to get an instance of the original, but you have no way to know it inside s3d editor.

I was even surprised to see the 3d model after i deleted the 3d object node

Eh eh the important is that it is now much clearer and OP please put this info somewhere for the modders

Best regards Hans

03-12-11, 04:02 PM

S3D does show the 3D model assigned.
It's ID is located above where you see the textures assigned.

ctrl and click to edit.

Now when I built the Munsell?
There was no S3D.
It was all done in Hex which means I spent WEEKS just to get things placed.
I could now do the whole project in a day with S3D.

reaper7 · 03-12-11, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Wow excellent Privateer, that sure gonna make these re-texture jobs interesting.

03-12-11, 05:00 PM

Hi reaper,

It should make textureing for the stuff easy.
All use the same UV's so you just repaint as you want!
As each texture is seperate?
You also control Specular and Diffuse settings.
You end up with a wider range of things you can do.
AND each object done this way allows additional details to be added as you wish.

As I've said many times over the years?
It's a totally wide open way to do some really killer stuff!

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 06:52 PM

Hi shipmates,

Very interesting stuff had been post today thank to privateer for the knowledge he shared with us

Another issue arise in my mind after all that, does the engine capable of handling mirror object also as an example the engine are identical on both side but the only way to show them correctly is to mirror them in the X axis so i wonder if it was implemented in the engine? If not then the only option is a complete new model even if they are identical because rotating them wont get us the mirror effect.

Best regards Hans

03-12-11, 07:39 PM

Mirroring can be done but is very limited in scope.
You can not take half a ship hull and mirror it as an example.
The 3D placement of verts does not allow this.
But you could mirror half of anything round.
Say the depth Charge Barrells maybe.

Hans Witteman · 03-12-11, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Mirroring can be done but is very limited in scope.
You can not take half a ship hull and mirror it as an example.
The 3D placement of verts does not allow this.
But you could mirror half of anything round.
Say the depth Charge Barrells maybe.

Hi again mate,

That what i tough so for this one the only way is a second 3d object at least we can use same texture for both side.

Don't despair team mates i'm almost done i just under estimated the amount of work it was to build a new model with texture and recording the job on video but at last the team will be equip with top tutorial content so even eventual new team members will benefit from it

Best regards Hans

03-12-11, 08:24 PM

IF you get creative with building things and assigning textures?
The engines could use some mirroring to reduce verts and faces.
As could many things in Game.
It really comes down to 3D and import skills by the builder.
As 'kit bashing' was the standard for so long?
Many never looked at any advanced way of modeling let alone
advanced manipulation of the dats.
S3D made it easier but again, many do not have the skill set or knowledge
to go the advanced route and pull this type of work off.
It is a bit hard to get the hang of it.
(As you have well seen

)
But once it's understood?
It's like WTF was I thinking?

This lesson should also be applied to animations.
What you think you know and what is actually able to be done are 2 different things!
You'll note that aside from the Life Boat mod?
I've not seen an original animation placed in Game in any major way.
Adjustments to standard animations yes.
But totally new one offs?
No.

The structure is very well known and defined and easy to do as far as animation work.

03-12-11, 02:14 PM	#665
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	As I did a quick renameing of the New Node in the guns.dat file, The eqp file must call the new Gun Node yes. Here's the eqp calls. [Equipment 1] NodeName=M01 LinkName=381mm_Regia_B StartDate=19380101 EndDate=19480601 [Equipment 2] NodeName=M02 LinkName=381mm_Regia_B1 StartDate=19380101 EndDate=19480601 381mm_Regia_B1 is the New Node. But both use the same 3D model. You'd need to add to the sim and zon files also to make it workable in Game. On loading the Game, only 1 3D Model is loaded. On rendering a view, I'm sure the Game would build however many versions are called. Just like haveing 3 of the same ships in view. 1 Model, 3 instances. And there is a precedent of this technique in Stock SH3. I don't remember where. All I did was take it to an extreme. Last edited by Madox58; 03-12-11 at 03:05 PM.

03-12-11, 06:52 PM	#672
Hans Witteman Kaleun of U-3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: somewhere in 1939 Posts: 1,816 Downloads: 123 Uploads: 0	Hi shipmates, Very interesting stuff had been post today thank to privateer for the knowledge he shared with us Another issue arise in my mind after all that, does the engine capable of handling mirror object also as an example the engine are identical on both side but the only way to show them correctly is to mirror them in the X axis so i wonder if it was implemented in the engine? If not then the only option is a complete new model even if they are identical because rotating them wont get us the mirror effect. Best regards Hans __________________

03-12-11, 01:49 PM	#662
SquareSteelBar Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: U-73 Posts: 1,638 Downloads: 624 Uploads: 0	Is somebody interested in a german translated SH3 MissionEditor ?

03-12-11, 03:37 PM	#667
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It's no problem Hans. I was a bit surprise many did not take advantage of this technique long ago! It certainly has many advantages if applied correctly and with some imagination. For instance, Any Turret could have adaptive textures based on the year to match the Ships texture. You just create the Sub Nodes with unique names and textures and do the eqp stuff! As you do not need a 1024 X 1024 texture for the Turrets? Multiple textures are better then multiple 3D Models. As you would be doing the textures anyway! Taken to extreme effects? It's a system demand lowering technique. When GWX 4 for SH4 was under process? We actually discussed, and started, building Library files for ship parts. So each Ship would not have an anchor in it's model for example. But a node to place the anchor which would be called by the eqp. So total Verts would drop drastically at Game loading! Imagine the total saveings when Masts and such were done this way!

03-12-11, 04:02 PM	#669
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	S3D does show the 3D model assigned. It's ID is located above where you see the textures assigned. ctrl and click to edit. Now when I built the Munsell? There was no S3D. It was all done in Hex which means I spent WEEKS just to get things placed. I could now do the whole project in a day with S3D.

03-12-11, 05:00 PM	#671
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Hi reaper, It should make textureing for the stuff easy. All use the same UV's so you just repaint as you want! As each texture is seperate? You also control Specular and Diffuse settings. You end up with a wider range of things you can do. AND each object done this way allows additional details to be added as you wish. As I've said many times over the years? It's a totally wide open way to do some really killer stuff!

03-12-11, 07:39 PM	#673
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Mirroring can be done but is very limited in scope. You can not take half a ship hull and mirror it as an example. The 3D placement of verts does not allow this. But you could mirror half of anything round. Say the depth Charge Barrells maybe.

03-12-11, 08:24 PM	#675
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	IF you get creative with building things and assigning textures? The engines could use some mirroring to reduce verts and faces. As could many things in Game. It really comes down to 3D and import skills by the builder. As 'kit bashing' was the standard for so long? Many never looked at any advanced way of modeling let alone advanced manipulation of the dats. S3D made it easier but again, many do not have the skill set or knowledge to go the advanced route and pull this type of work off. It is a bit hard to get the hang of it. (As you have well seen ) But once it's understood? It's like WTF was I thinking? This lesson should also be applied to animations. What you think you know and what is actually able to be done are 2 different things! You'll note that aside from the Life Boat mod? I've not seen an original animation placed in Game in any major way. Adjustments to standard animations yes. But totally new one offs? No. The structure is very well known and defined and easy to do as far as animation work.