[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled Update BH

[Kal_Maximus_U669]

For my part I think it allows to have a more stable image to have an optimal "framrate" in terms of second images... to prevent the tearing of images.. is incidentally to avoid the shifts of the acceleration of time
I avoid going beyond 1024x
but i think there is something with the drivers that it is not working properly starting with the lighting...is all that is texture filtering...the volumetric smoke is also a problem..
having WHQL DCH certified drivers would be a plus... but Ubisoft doesn't seem to be concerned about that so we know the rest...

[Bubblehead1980]

Wolfpacks in the campaign are really coming together for V2.0. Better than I expected Not perfect but really adds some immersion and a dynamic previously absent.

In initial attack, BARB sunk three ships. Pack mates sunk at least one, perhaps two, damaged another. (Will increase power of AI subs torpedoes, a little underpowered)


Read below. Posts #47-49.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...05#post2797605

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Forgive the ignorance of the question lmao but what exactly does vertical synch do? ( I mean I have a idea but)

Vertical sync, more popularly known as VSync, synchronizes the refresh rate and frame rate of a monitor. GPU manufacturers developed this technology to solve screen tearing. Screen tearing happens when your GPU displays parts of multiple frames at once. As a result, displays may appear split along a horizontal line. When the frames per second don’t sync with the refresh rate of the GPU, tearing occurs.


Though screen tearing can happen anytime, it is most visible in vertical elements like buildings and trees during high-speed games with constant rate changes. Tearing breaks the viewer’s immersion and makes games look ugly.


VSync corrects this by limiting the graphic card’s refresh rate to frame rate, thus avoiding higher frames per second than the monitor’s capacity. It uses page flipping and double buffering to display frames after a refresh cycle finishes so that users don’t see tears.


I don't use it myself. I think with my refresh rate of 144 Hz, I don't see any difference, especially with fast paced games.

[J0313]

I enable vsync and my screen looks great.

[Captain Wreckless]

Originally Posted by J0313

I enable vsync and my screen looks great.

Some people prefer to or need to use Vsync. I never use it as I don't see any difference with or without. In the past it caused problems with games so I quit using it.

[Bubblehead1980]

I enabled vsync. While machine runs my SH 4 setup just fine, I noticed a slightly better performance in some regards. Will keep it activated next patrol and see how it works out to confirm.

[Captain Wreckless]

Man these IJN DD's are a PITA! I was playing and in the middle of no where, I stumbled upon a older DD at 10K yards. Submerged and at around 8K yards he turned toward me then attacked when closer.

It seems they have some sort of uber sonar. There was no way he could have detected me at that range and running at 3 kts.

And when they attack no matter how deep I am they seem to know what depth to set ashcans to.

They just seem to be way to accurate at finding and attacking.

Early in the war the IJN was setting the depthcharges to shallow until a US Congressmen mentioned it in an interview that made the papers. Guess it doesn't apply to this game.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

Man these IJN DD's are a PITA! I was playing and in the middle of no where, I stumbled upon a older DD at 10K yards. Submerged and at around 8K yards he turned toward me then attacked when closer.

It seems they have some sort of uber sonar. There was no way he could have detected me at that range and running at 3 kts.

And when they attack no matter how deep I am they seem to know what depth to set ashcans to.

They just seem to be way to accurate at finding and attacking.

Early in the war the IJN was setting the depthcharges to shallow until a US Congressmen mentioned it in an interview that made the papers. Guess it doesn't apply to this game.

Yes, TMO escorts, especially those DD's on lone ASW patrol, can be a real PITA. This is by design, so they are not easy targets. Keep in mind, when you find a lone DD or ASW type vessel, their skill level 8/10 times is going to be set to ELITE. This is to make them effective sub hunters and not easy targets. Elite skill level does amplify their capabilities some, representing skilled and alert crew. Evasion and even approaching for attack and successfully attacking is still quite doable though.

What range were you at when you submerged? That matters as your boat's noise level is a maximum when diving and surfacing. Not only engine RPM's come to play, but noises pumps, water being blown from tanks etc, the sim does simulate your sound signature being louder during the dive/surface transition to represent this.

3 knots may have been too noisy. Check your RPM's on the gauges by the helmsman in conning tower or control room when in s boats. When trying to be stealthy, keeping it under 100 works best. Most boats ahead 1/3 submerged is about 2.4 kts and 80 RPM or so. Did you heave silent running engaged? If not, definitely need that for approach. Were you in a S boat or ? Older boats like the S bots or Narwhal are noisy compared to newer boats,
and easier to detect, which is historically accurate.

Example1: Running silent and under for hours, I come up, there is a escort 5.5 nautical miles away either sitting still listening or trolling about at a speed where he can hear (there is a certain speed at which their passive sonar becomes ineffective, and one which their active sonar becomes ineffective). I decide to surface to get away. I order surface. When I hit the depth SH 4 sets for itself to distinguish between surfaced and submerged (40 feet for for fleet boats, when diesels cut out)

I am secured from silent running during that transition period and boom, escort, especially if already listening, likely heard me , yes, he is coming about and closing my location. Even if left motors at slow speed, less than 100 RPM, still heard me, because I was making noise. There are also other variables that effect range of passive sonar, such as sea state. Obviously in calm seas, much higher chance of hearing you, heavier seas, less. Where you are on earth matters as well. To some degrees different sound conditions around planet are in fact modeled into the sim. Thermal layer comes into play as well, if you are below a thermal layer, less chance of hearing you approach.


Same goes for diving when too close , you are noisy they can hear you. I always try to submerged at least 12500-13000 yards ahead of target. Once below, activate silent running. If need speed to make your run, go deep for the approach. Example I know its safe to go 350 ft in a Gato, so if need to make a high speed run to close range for firing after submerging 13000 yards ahead, I go to 350 ft and ahead flank for the time calculated needed ot cover the distance.

About half way through I may slow and pop up to periscope depth for observation to make sure target has not changed course etc. Then back to 350 ft and close range.

Sometimes don't need to go that deep, just go to 100 feet for approach, pop up to scope depth when needed.


Another factor is undetected aircraft. Planes can see your sub under water in right conditions and if they do, they will alert nearby forces. Some subhunters on patrol have a plane attached to them to scout ahead. Not that common, but does exist.



Thing about passive/active sonar in this sim is finding balance and accounting for so many variables which are different in nearly every attack. , if you reduce their capabilities too much via sensor reduction and/or skill level, then enemy becomes overall incompetent, which can make the sim unchallenging and boring frankly after a few patrol. Pulling off a attack and having a enemy they can never locate and depth charge or you know is always going to be ineffective can get boring, quick. This is why TMO was created, to provide a level of challenge to enhance realism because stock was not challenging. Serves , keep players on their toes. I never get bored because each time get depth charges proves a bit different and challenging. I just wrapped up a patrol in August-October 1944 in Luzon Straits. Man what a challenge lol but a great patrol.

I've actually in some ways, made TMO "easier" with my updates, because
I revised the damage model and depth charges. I did not tool with sensors in
previous update but have been working on them buy changing their but again, it can make things too easy. Work in progress for sure.

Speaking of depth charges...


Correct on the depth setting issue. Unfortunately, the way things are modeled in the sim, there is not a single depth setting for charges or max depth setting as had in real life. I wish could make it so but the AI up until its last ping, is deciding which depth player sub is at and charges at set accordingly. So they stop pinging and are above closing in for the drop, you are in the blind spot of the sonar. At this point AI, has set the charges to detonate between X depth and X depth. Depending on the depth precision settings in the files , varies among mods stock etc) . Depends on type of escort how many charges can lay in one pattern etc. This is accurate in the sense that depth charges were set to explode are varying depths to "sandwich" in the player sub with shockwaves. Now, in the update I did model two types of depth charges. Type 95 , ones japanese used early to mid war, and Type 2. Type 95 is not as powerful, does not sink as fast (used historical data for sink rate etc) To simulate its in some way the difference, its "depth precision" setting for Type 2, it does not vary that much from the set depth by the AI, so easier for player to avoid getting "sandwiched" in a depth charge pattern. Type 95 can destroy or seriously damage your boat, BUT not the outright sub killer the Type 95 is. After the idiot congressman blabbed and Japanese had time to design and deploy the Type 2, which first hit fleet in November 1943, US subs losses went up. Even in 1943, many Type 95's were retrofitted with improved exploders in response to that intel leak, and losses began to increase as well.

Problem is, as you noted, there is no max depth for the charges. Player can be at 650 ft in a Balao or Tench and they are setting charges to explode below that depth lol. There is no way to change that, unfortunately. Also, quite dangerous to be really deep, say beyond 100 ft of test depth of most boats (Balao, Tench are exceptions) as the sim does model the effects of depth charges at different depths, the pressure of shockwaves. I did extensive testing on this during the mod. A depth charge with same hit points, blowing up at same distance, same spot, will cause much more damage or even hull failure to a Balao at say 600+ feet vs one at periscope depth or 300 ft even. I tested this a ridiculous amount of times in various boats etc. Of course it also has to do with the class of boat, each one has different hull strengths, max depths, tolerances etc. So a boat with test depth of 250, going beyond 350 , boat with 300, going beyond 400, and s forth.


A evasion tactic to use employ is changing depths continuously. Current career, I am in a Gato in Fall 1944, escort comes in pinging, at right moment when hes passing above (can hear him of course), I order ahead full and if at say 350 feet, order 390 ft, because his last sonar reading told him I was at 350, his charges will be set accordingly,. Now once I hear splash in water, I order ahead flank for about 45 seconds "speed burst", I hit the A key to level off, so my stern is not sticking up at the depth where the charges will be exploding. Most charge will explode above the sub, one may explode at your depth or little below, depends, it is a crap shoot. I may hang at 390 or so for while, then back up to 350, for a run, maybe even 325 to convince AI I am going shallow, rinse and repeat procedure . Also always have 5-10 degrees rudder on and alternate port and starboard, so am never on a constant heading. If stay on a constant heading, AI will figure it out and attack accordingly. Also, if youre not using, can try the depth charge disturbance mod I uploaded few weeks ago. This simulates the noises under water for each depth charge explosion, which in real life made their listening gear useless for a time until water settled back down. This provided a nice window for the submarine. I think its a little too effective in current version as made the AI too easy during evasion, espec in late war when they drop large patterns, I tested a modified version last patrol I just wrapped up and worked great so in coming days will release a second version.

[Bubblehead1980]

Wrapped up latest patrol in V2.0

Got a chance to really test out wolfpack operations with AI subs on this one, overall went great. Found out they will respond to contact reports if close enough. One attack on convoy at night, I sunk three ships, they sunk 3, possibly 4, damaged another, which I later encountered in daylight and sunk.

Anyways, going to refine things a bit but very happy how this turned out.
Really brings a new element to the sim and mod.

Full report and screenshots here.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...d.php?t=107786

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

A evasion tactic to use employ is changing depths continuously. ...escort comes in pinging, at right moment when hes passing above (can hear him of course), I order ahead full and if at say 350 feet, order 390 ft, because his last sonar reading told him I was at 350, his charges will be set accordingly,. Now once I hear splash in water, I order ahead flank for about 45 seconds "speed burst", I hit the A key to level off, so my stern is not sticking up at the depth where the charges will be exploding. Most charge will explode above the sub, one may explode at your depth or little below, depends, it is a crap shoot. I may hang at 390 or so for while, then back up to 350, for a run, maybe even 325 to convince AI I am going shallow, rinse and repeat procedure . Also always have 5-10 degrees rudder on and alternate port and starboard, so am never on a constant heading. If stay on a constant heading, AI will figure it out and attack accordingly. Also, if youre not using, can try the depth charge disturbance mod I uploaded few weeks ago. This simulates the noises under water for each depth charge explosion, which in real life made their listening gear useless for a time until water settled back down. This provided a nice window for the submarine. I think its a little too effective in current version as made the AI too easy during evasion, espec in late war when they drop large patterns, I tested a modified version last patrol I just wrapped up and worked great so in coming days will release a second version.

this tactic is very important no matter what mod-set you are using.
changing course, depth, and speed is vital when evading the enemy.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

this tactic is very important no matter what mod-set you are using.
changing course, depth, and speed is vital when evading the enemy.

True. I have worked to make it where while one should change depth often, can stay at a realistic/historical operating depth for class of boat and survive.

I used to get really annoyed at always having to take a Gato or earlier boat to 500+ feet to survive. Accomplished it to degree in V 1.0, but Way things have shaped up in V2.0 it is now possible to stay at a realistic operating depth and not be killed or crippled every time. In Gato class,, which sure you know has test depth of 300 ft, have stayed between 300-400 feet, except when a large pattern of DC shockwaves pushed boat to 410 ft, and survived since January 1944, currently in November 1944, just set out on patrol. Accomplished this without making escorts easier. Just further adjustment to the damage model for more realism. Of course if key equipment takes damage, can find self in trouble.


Have to work on S boats a bit lol. May have to make a add in mod for when using S boats, to make enemy sensors effective , but more tuned for when player has S boat and its capabiltiies. S boats can't dive that deep, sim and mod is definitely geared toward the fleet boats.

[Captain Wreckless]

I may have discovered the cause of my CTDs. Before I used LAA or 4GB patch, I forgot that I had to turn the read only comment off on the exe file.

Anyway once I try another patrol we'll see.

Had an interesting event happen. On my way to Convoy College just NW of Lingayen Gulf, cruising on the surface, lookouts reported A/C behind me. Started crash dive, and using external view, I saw a line of about 20 Betty Bombers flying in trail being led by a single Zero and they were close. Started zig zag while trying to dive. Nautilus is a diving PIG! About 5 or 6 bombs landed right behind and beside me with no damage done. Then for about an hour 3 flights of 6 Zeros came and dropped bombs but only killed fish as I was about 2 miles from where I went under.

I've never seen that many bombers before let alone in trail. Must have just finished bombing Manila.

Passed this dude on my way to Convoy College. 1st time I've seen a Fleet Boat when playing.

[pbar1469]

Hi all, BH.

On my first early war campaign, somewhere near Truk. Found a convoy with 2 destroyers and 4 merchants. After a failed/sucessful attack (tried several times), those two destroyers converge on me like there is no tomorrow.
As soon as I release the fish, I dive to 400 ft (with a gar), running silent, 1 knot, and no matter where I turn to, no matter how long, those two little cans always reck me up with DC's. I was under the impression that early war sonar would not reach that deep.
They do loose track of me for a bit, then ping around, and with me sitting there at 400ft, even 0 knots, silent running, they somehow magically find me and drop the DC with surgeon precision on top of me... Am I assuming something wrong?
I am using the Mod as described with no other extras except for "no trembling" - underwater screencaps and a skin (SH4_original_4k_light_gray).

Thanks!

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Captain Wreckless

I may have discovered the cause of my CTDs. Before I used LAA or 4GB patch, I forgot that I had to turn the read only comment off on the exe file.

Anyway once I try another patrol we'll see.

Had an interesting event happen. On my way to Convoy College just NW of Lingayen Gulf, cruising on the surface, lookouts reported A/C behind me. Started crash dive, and using external view, I saw a line of about 20 Betty Bombers flying in trail being led by a single Zero and they were close. Started zig zag while trying to dive. Nautilus is a diving PIG! About 5 or 6 bombs landed right behind and beside me with no damage done. Then for about an hour 3 flights of 6 Zeros came and dropped bombs but only killed fish as I was about 2 miles from where I went under.

I've never seen that many bombers before let alone in trail. Must have just finished bombing Manila.

Passed this dude on my way to Convoy College. 1st time I've seen a Fleet Boat when playing.

Yes, that may just be your problem. If I recall correctly, I have seen it mentioned in the forums to make sure readme is not clicked.
Hope that is it, so you can enjoy the sim without CTD.

Yep you ran into one of the bomber raids, if all had that much ordnance, must have ran into you on their way to bomb lol. Zeros were escorts of course. Unfortunately, way sim is built planes are ASW at hear and will ignore anything else to attack player submarine lol.


Nice screenshot Yes, for immersion I added US surfaced submarines in various areas throughout the war. Fairly rare to sight them but occasionally may happen esp in approaches to bases like Midway, Pearl, Fremantle etc.


In forthcoming version 2.0 , starting late 1943, player may get assigned to a wolfpack with 2 or 3 other subs (depends as I based these on real wolfpacks ( "Coordinated Attack Groups" as USN called them) . The AI subs were effective on last patrol, sinking and damaged several ships. Kind of cool as conduct a joint attack. I attacked, then while I was on surface at night for end around, I saw flashes and explosions in distance, where AI had torpedoed a tanker. Also, I have found if they are in range, will respond to contact reports and attack. At this time, only the submerged US subs fire torpedoes, I am working on getting the surfaced version to fire them as well.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by pbar1469

Hi all, BH.

On my first early war campaign, somewhere near Truk. Found a convoy with 2 destroyers and 4 merchants. After a failed/sucessful attack (tried several times), those two destroyers converge on me like there is no tomorrow.
As soon as I release the fish, I dive to 400 ft (with a gar), running silent, 1 knot, and no matter where I turn to, no matter how long, those two little cans always reck me up with DC's. I was under the impression that early war sonar would not reach that deep.
They do loose track of me for a bit, then ping around, and with me sitting there at 400ft, even 0 knots, silent running, they somehow magically find me and drop the DC with surgeon precision on top of me... Am I assuming something wrong?
I am using the Mod as described with no other extras except for "no trembling" - underwater screencaps and a skin (SH4_original_4k_light_gray).

Thanks!

Well, once they spot the wakes of torpedoes or ship is torpedoed, AI assumes you are in X position. So they go towards it, and AI shifts from "normal" mode to "alert" mode, which heightens their sensitivity to contacts and they go searching. They are likely detecting you on active sonar once searching and make their attack. There are a variety of factors that play into things such as sea state, weather, thermal layer, RPM's you motors are making, silent running, skill level, and model of passive/active sonar the vessel is equipped with.


Definitely never want to go to 0 knts, sitting still, you are a easy stationary target. They know where you, what depth you're sitting at and kind of easy to hit. Even 1 knot is too slow, just make sure on silent running and hit ahead 1/3. Look at RPM gauge in the conning tower by the helmsman. It'll read around 80 RPM which is fine. In a silent running, long as under 100 RPM 0 knot or 1 knot, is just too slow, makes a easy target.

Honestly, should never just go right to 400 feet for several reasons. One, in Gar. Tambor with test depth of 250, 400 is really pushing it. as its out of that 100 foot safety window. Yes, can go deeper but danger of immediate hull collapse is heightened by depth charge explosions. SH 4 does simulate the different effects. Pressures caused by DC at different depths. You take a good DC hit at 400 feet, the effects are multiplied quite a bit more than would at say 350. Has to do with hull strength, max depth, etc. I won't bore you with all testing details, but I tested this extensively when making the mod.

A great tactic to use in any boat but will refer to Gar since you are in a Gar Class.

First, instead of 400, go to 250ft, your test depth in a Gar. They come in, pinging you , getting a read on you, thinking you are at 250 ft. Listening carefully, when you hear the roar of their engines because are above, about to drop, , go to ahead full for about 30 seconds and BEFORE they drop, just after they stop pinging(you are in the DD's blind spot for a few seconds" ordered 450 feet so your boat goes in a dive, but as close 300 feet, hit the "A" key to level off around 300 feet. Once hear splashes of DC dropping water, go ahead FLANK until hear some DC explosions. This "speed burst" will get you out from under most charges. After the run go all stop and let the momentum carry you for next minute or so, then go ahead 1/3 again. Next run go to 325 ft, then 350 and even 375. Try bouncing back up to 350 and 325, then back to 375. Over time, changes confuse the AI. You should noticed when pull this off correctly,( esp in earlier war as depth charges in early war are different than the Type 2 used in later war) that most, sometimes all of the explosion will be above your sub, at the last depth they pinged you before dropping. Example...you were at 250 feet when they pinged you last, you are at 300 feet when charges detonate, likely will all
be above or most.


Course changes...always keep about 5-10 degrees rudder on. I keep 10 on and then when they are about to drop I go to rudder admiships for duration of the speed burst, then go 10-15 after for a few minutes while the momentum of sub slows, then back to 5 degrees rudder in OPPOSITE direction it was at time of the DC attack. After couple runs and rudder is to port, go to starboard. This keeps you from going in a strait course/line and confuses the AI. This was a real tactic used by skippers, among them Admiral Thomas Dykers, CO of USS JACK.


Basically, rinse and repeat these procedures and you can get away most of the time.

Enemy AI is on a timer, appears to be hardcoded, basically if they go X amount of time without solid contact on you, they will give up but if regain contact, clock starts over usually. You, as real subs had to do, have basically endure the counter attack and outlast them. Far as them losing you, and regaining contact, that happens and did happen during the war.

I just finished getting depth charged in a Gato (so quite similar to Gar) in November 1944 in Area 9-East China Sea South of Tsushima (Korea) Strait.

Max depth is 315 feet. I survived using tactics above, with minimal damage in this attack. Never went below 300 feet.

I've been depth charged many times since started this career in January 1944 and never went below 400 feet on purpose, one DC pattern above me when I was at 395 ft(Im in a Gato with test depth of 300 ft vs 250 in a Gar) pushed me to 410 briefly but never went below on purpose and survived.


Other factors that play in into this again are the escorts skills level set in the files, as well as their mission. Escorts assigned to convoys do not tend to hunt for as long, (some will) while those assigned to independent patrol, will hunt you quite a bit longer. Again, there are different variables which can influence this.


One reason I redesigned the damage model and depth charges in TMO was so player could stay at a realistic and safe operating depth, get depth charges for hours and not get killed via "insta death" i.e. charges put too many hit points on the sub and hull collapsed. Subs were usually lost because over time key equipment was knocked out, combined with flooding from leaks caused etc and had to surface or could not surface. Now, very close charges can still cause hull damage and on rare occasion total collapse. Again, depends on boat what depth etc are.



Far as depth enemy sonar can reach you. In real life I believe its a misconception the Japanese sonar could not reach beyond certain depth in any phase of the war. In early war boats rarely went below 300-350 feet. Most boats at start had their test depth of 250 until Gatos came round. Of course they found boats could go deeper , that test depths were conservative estimates but Japanese could track them and force them deep. I twas their depth charges used early on were setting for 250 ft (which I believe was early exploders max depth) and then 300 ft, well a idiot Congressman by name of Andrew J. May bragged to press about this and Japanese found out, introduced Type 2 depth charge with exploders could be set deeper.


Then we had deep diving boats from mid 1943 on in the Balao, which could go quite deep and Japanese were surprisingly using active sonar to track them at 500+ feet. Even before their more advanced late war sets were in service.



Far as TMO sonar depth goes, there is no magic depth to get away, if there were, it would get boring quick all player would have to do is go to x depth. Again, depends on a variety of factors as listed above. Again, you have to outlast them until they give up. Make them lost solid contact with you(They may continue to ping, drop charges etc but does not mean have solid contact. )


While there is no magic "get away depth" , different models of sonar passive and active, become less effective at different depths. The default early war sound and each ranging gear the Type 93-1A(Active) and 93-1P(Passive)
were far too ineffective, to the point I found early war TMO boring. Early war was no cake walk. Read plenty of early patrol reports, subs often took hours and hours of beatings by depth charges.

With the 93-1A and 1-P, basically, player had to get to 300 or so feet and could easily escape, would be lucky if a DC attack lasted 20 minutes in most cases.

So I removed the early war and gave nearly all of them mid war gear from the start. Some have a mix of the early Type 93-3A and 3P. This mad early war escorts more effective and not total incompetent pushovers were previously, in most cases.

Finally, you said escorts were two destroyers, I assume actual DD's , if actual DD's , you likely ran into some top notch escorts, set to ELITE skill level. They can be a challenge.


Hope this helps. Let me know if have anymore questions.