Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Anyone noticed the visit of the russian delegation in the white house a few days ago? Donny you traitor, you have been bought long ago.

Late 70s or early 80s already.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Anyone noticed the visit of the russian delegation in the white house a few days ago? Donny you traitor, you have been bought long ago.

The White House last week announced that “all journalists deserve a seat” in the Oval Office press pool. For a fleeting moment on Friday, that included the Russian state media. A staffer from TASS, a Russian outlet that often promotes glorified coverage of Russian leader Vladimir Putin, was briefly in the room for President Donald Trump’s bilateral meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. American media mainstays Reuters and the Associated Press were not granted access. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/0...nskyy-00206739

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by mapuc

What's going through his(Trump) mind ?

USA is out, he said - Which must mean Europe has to lift the burden themselves. Something they can't.

Or can they ?

Zelenskyy should be gambling with WW3 and I who thought it was Putin who was gambling with WW3.

Markus

Now you're getting it, this is not America's fight. This agreement was about recouping the 80 billion we've already spent, nothing more.

Originally Posted by mapuc

Was this expected or did Zelenskyy enter the Oval office with a positive
mindset ? Hoping a deal would be made, so he could get weapon and ammo from USA.

He was told to return, when he was ready for peace-What peace and under which terms ?

Markus

Zelensky knew that security guarantees were not part of this deal, He's trying to gas light Trump into putting it in. That's not working out too well so far.

[Skybird]

Sure, getting blackmailed is always the victim's fault. If somebody is weak and desperate and struggles for mere survival - exploit him and try to squeeze as much out of him as you can. Double, three times asmuch as you invested into him before.

If that is "deal-making", then flush the concept down the toilet.


Value given as lend and lease, or as credit, will and should be paid back. What was handed over unconditionally, is done, is a donation. Later demanding it back, and even several times as much than was given, is betrayal and robbery. There is a proverb in German: "Schenken und dann wieder holen ist gestohlen." Giving a gift, and later demanding it back, is theft. Given for free is given for free. Thats what donating aid is about.


The EU has given most of its aid on credit, not as free donation - but at so favourable interest rates and terms and conditions that of that value most will not be needed to be paid back.

[Dargo]

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Sure, getting blackmailed is always the victim's fault. If somebody is weak and desperate and struggles for mere survival - exploit him and try to squeeze as much out of him as you can. Double, three times asmuch as you invested into him before.

If that is "deal-making", then flush the concept down the toilet.


Value given as lend and lease, or as credit, will and should be paid back. What was handed over unconditionally, is done, is a donation. Later demanding it back, and even several times as much than was given, is betrayal and robbery. There is a proverb in German: "Schenken und dann wieder holen ist gestohlen." Giving a gift, and later demanding it back, is theft. Given for free is given for free. Thats what donating aid is about.


The EU has given most of its aid on credit, not as free donation - but at so favourable interest rates and terms and conditions that of that value most will not be needed to be paid back.

You're posts are beginning to sound redundant, we get it, your upset over the fact the U.S. isn't interested in financing or fighting in a regional dispute. So rather than castigate the U.S. for not wanting to be involved in the Ukrainian war, you should convince your leaders in the European Union to actually get more involved by providing more weapons, materials and troops.

[mapuc]

Zelenskyy should be thankful ! Thankful for what ? They only received parts of promised military aid from the States.

Can't win. Well neither can Russia. Who's closest to become a winner, not tomorrow but within the next 8-10 years from now ?

Markus

[Ostfriese]

It's one thing to say you don't want to support a side in a perceived regional conflict (which, coming from the US, is bollocks anyway, as they have directly or indirectly supported at least one side in EVERY regional or larger war since world war II).


But doing in a way that alienates the few friends and allies you have left is way beyond stupid. Hello, America, you want to get rid of your trade deficit? Alienating your best customers is the worst thing you could do to achieve that.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just as Hitler came to an agreement with the Soviet dictator Stalin about the division of Poland, Trump came to an agreement with the Russian dictator Putin about the division of Ukraine and its resources. Hiostory does nto repeat itself. But it follows similar patterns. The rescuers of back then, today are the evildoers of the present.

All that is required of the Ukrainians is to submit humbly, to go down silently and patiently, to sacrifice themselves for the rotten agenda of the great Donald, and please not to make such a fuss while they are being reduced to rubble and the people are being slaughtered. They should really be grateful for all of this! The Russian shoots the victim, the American plunders the carcass. Great, these two have found each other.

Bravo Donny. History will remember you according to the standards of the company you aspired to. Anyone who mocks and lectures the victim of an assassination attempt, who is lying on the ground bleeding and still twitching and practically unable to defend himmself, while emptying his pockets and plunder its gold, is really the last dirt on earth.

The two-headed scum that wanted to lecture Zelenkyi, Trump and Vance, they really are the last pack of rats. They should be thrown to the rats themselves. I just doubt that rats eat such filth. These are clever animals, very clever in fact.

You nailed it right on the head Skybird!! Can't these idiots see that Russia invaded Ukraine back in 2014 and now again, no provocation from Ukraine, and now Donny wants Ukraine to just lay down arms and surrender, whilst good old Donny plunders them for their minerals!! I don't see anyway to fix this other than Europe helping Ukraine - Unbelievable!!!
My heart goes out to Ukraine, I will be making another donation, though only a pensioner amount unfortunately!!

[Ostfriese]

How long until Trumpistan will start supporting Russia with weapons?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

How long until Trumpistan will start supporting Russia with weapons?

He has started with demanding Russia being allowed back into the G8. And voting with Russia, North Korea and Belarus at the UN. Maybe he next will accept parts of Putin's offered deal on stolen Ukrainian ressources.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by MaDef

You're posts are beginning to sound redundant, we get it, your upset over the fact the U.S. isn't interested in financing or fighting in a regional dispute. So rather than castigate the U.S. for not wanting to be involved in the Ukrainian war, you should convince your leaders in the European Union to actually get more involved by providing more weapons, materials and troops.

Ukraine’s non-American allies have delivered about 60 percent of all aid sent Ukraine, while the US has sent about 40 percent.

[Raf1394]

I actually agree with Trump for a tiny bit. I know its pretty sick that Ukraine will have to give all the land they lost to Russia...

But whats the other solution? Keep giving equipment, and money to Ukraine to keep on fighting Russia? Risking more people to suffer and die, economical crisis. Russians and Ukrainian people suffering more. Risk for escalation.
How long will the war go on? if we keep continuing the war.

If we have a peace deal, the suffering will end i hope. But Ukraine needs to have some conditions they can live with. for example Russia repaying a part of the reparation. Conditions that Russia will never attack Ukraine again ect...
A peace deal or a cease fire is the best thing to do. Keeping up the war is a bad idea.
Could you accept fighting a lost war? The longer the war keeps on going. The more impact it will have on the longterm.

If Putin for example will start to feel, he can do everything and for example starting invading Moldavia or something. Then even Trump needs to say
''hey no way, thats enough buddy, don't be stupid''

[Dargo]

What happened yesterday was meant to happen Trump, Vance has no intention of ending this war this was set up in advance Trump wants a deal not a peace treaty. Trump sees such a deal as his ticket to a Nobel Peace Prize and personal gain, this is what strokes his ego not the good for others, not for the common man who is F'd whether they are Ukrainians or Americans. This man like all these leaders has a brainfart that is what power does to you. With this kind of people you are led by junkies, deranged in the head.

If Trump allows Russia permanently to annex parts of Ukraine, it will lay the groundwork for a renewed conflict with the West. Trump is fast becoming a Chamberlain 2.0 after this betrayal of Ukraine. This lax attitude of the West only encourages the Kremlin to continue on its bellicose path. Even before the negotiations of this ‘peace’, Trump has started to inflate Ukraine's negotiating position (on the backs of Ukrainians). Is he so gullible that he thinks the Russian dictator will settle for part of Ukraine, and then his hunger for power will be satisfied? No! This has been agreed one-on-one between Trump and Putin. Trump will go down in the history books as the gullible US president who is sight-blind, responsible for the betrayal of Kyiv. Not the great peacemaker!

Trump is not a leader of the free world, he is rewarding an aggressor. We in the West cannot accept him any more. All US presidents were always our friends. But this man is no good, it is finished!

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Raf1394

I actually agree with Trump for a tiny bit. I know its pretty sick that Ukraine will have to give all the land they lost to Russia...

But whats the other solution? Keep giving equipment, and money to Ukraine to keep on fighting Russia? Risking more people to suffer and die, economical crisis. Russians and Ukrainian people suffering more. Risk for escalation.

Bowing to Russia will result in even more suffering and death in the future. Russia under Putin is an aggressive nation. Submitting to them will only result in Russia opening the next battlefield.

If we have a peace deal, the suffering will end i hope. But Ukraine needs to have some conditions they can live with. for example Russia repaying a part of the reparation. Conditions that Russia will never attack Ukraine again ect...

This deal already exists. Ukraine and Russia agreed to that when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. The Russians simply shat on that agreement.

A peace deal or a cease fire is the best thing to do. Keeping up the war is a bad idea.
Could you accept fighting a lost war?

If the consequence means suppression of your own culture and effectively slavery? Yes. That's was Ukraine is facing, and they'll rather die fighting than surrendering to that. and it's fully understandable.

If Putin for example will start to feel, he can do everything and for example starting invading Moldavia or something. Then even Trump needs to say
''hey no way, thats enough buddy, don't be stupid''

Trump has just shown that America's promises aren't worth anything, that America cannot be relied on, that America cannot be trusted on.