Subsim Narwhal Contest - Mod is now available, see post #662

[Sledgehammer427]

Okay, I'm going to make a test run of all my pretty new features, but I wanted to ask the general population something...

I modified the traverse and elevation so the guns don't rotate at 90 degrees per second, and it doesn't elevate at 90 deg/sec either.
traverse is now 8 deg/sec
and elevation is at 6 deg/sec

I also increased the loading time to 12 seconds.
the reason is that the gun fired a shell propelled by a powder charge, I ran a basic simulation with a friend (on a older breechloading cannon at the local memorial) and I acting as a gun crew, timed, our average was around 12 seconds, with the assumption that the charge and shell were ready to go.

I'm opting for realism, because these guns do some serious damage at any range.

[Jan Kyster]

Sounds very reasonable!


Need a beta-tester?

[TheBeast]

I am right there with Jan Kyster for the Beta Tester if needed.
I retired from the Software Industry in 2002.

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

more than texture issues ^_^

I took care of a few things that I wanted to do for a while,
I flipped the propeller guards upside-down, as per the actual sub
I also removed a dent in the port side, (dent...it was more like a black hole X_X but it's fixed!)
flipped faces back to their proper normals on the Bullnose (yay!)

the last thing I'm going to do is add a little detail to the deck guns and make it so they have a barrel and not just a closed cylinder

EDIT: also, just fixed the dive plane wells, since the actual plane placement is different I don't think we will be needing those.

good job matey !

I was wondering : when you edit a 3d mesh, remove and add triangles, how do you make it so that it is glued to the part ( element in 3ds) to which it should be ? that's the problem I had with the famous faces at the port side on the stern..

keltos

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I modified the traverse and elevation so the guns don't rotate at 90 degrees per second, and it doesn't elevate at 90 deg/sec either.
traverse is now 8 deg/sec
and elevation is at 6 deg/sec

I also increased the loading time to 12 seconds.
the reason is that the gun fired a shell propelled by a powder charge, I ran a basic simulation with a friend (on a older breechloading cannon at the local memorial) and I acting as a gun crew, timed, our average was around 12 seconds, with the assumption that the charge and shell were ready to go.

Offered up in good faith and without any implied criticism.

Anybody who has ever manually loaded a 155mm (6.1") gun or howitzer would probably find 12-seconds (5 rounds per minute) unsustainable for more than one or two rounds. With seperate loading ammunition, that is projectile, propellant and primer, any number of unavoidable factors could affect the loading process. This on a solid-ground gun platform and not a heaving submarine deck.

Loading a big gun is a very fatiguing task even for the physically fit and limited working space coupled with a likely desire to keep the crew on deck to a bare minimum also can act as factors affecting rapid fire.

Also loading related actions like swabbing the chamber of charge bag residue after each shot and frequent cleaning of the obturator group on the breach block and clearing the primer vent eat into your theoretical rate of fire.

Most gamers are unlikely to accept it but one round per minute (perhaps three in two minutes) is probably realistic with two or three rounds per minute possible only for the briefest period. This is also predicated on an efficient and uninterupted ammunition supply system to both guns, something potentially very manpower intensive.

6" guns were capable of great rates of fire but only when a high degree of automation was provided. This is not the case with submarine deck guns.

Also rapid rates of fire cause the barrels to heat very fast and they are slow to cool. Submerging with a hot tube is probably a very bad idea and something to be avoided if at all possible.

Estimation for traverse and elevation limits seem entirely reasonable though.

Your mod will add greatly to SH4 and many thanks in advance for the efforts of the Narwhal Team.

Good Hunting

[TheBeast]

Originally Posted by Randomizer

Offered up in good faith and without any implied criticism.

Anybody who has ever manually loaded a 155mm (6.1") gun or howitzer would probably find 12-seconds (5 rounds per minute) unsustainable for more than one or two rounds. With seperate loading ammunition, that is projectile, propellant and primer, any number of unavoidable factors could affect the loading process. This on a solid-ground gun platform and not a heaving submarine deck.

This bring a question to mind. Did you give each of these guns a 5 man crew in the Narwhat.upc file?

Doesn't matter if only 2 show in the vanilla 1.4 or 1.5 version but I am almost certain that if TMO, RSRDC or FotRS use this model they will have entire gun crew on deck when guns are manned.

-TheBeast

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

This bring a question to mind. Did you give each of these guns a 5 man crew in the Narwhat.upc file?

Doesn't matter if only 2 show in the vanilla 1.4 or 1.5 version but I am almost certain that if TMO, RSRDC or FotRS use this model they will have entire gun crew on deck when guns are manned.

-TheBeast

nope, they still have 3 crew and 1 leader, so 4 people manning the gun

keltos

[TheBeast]

Originally Posted by keltos01

nope, they still have 3 crew and 1 leader, so 4 people manning the gun
keltos

TMO is using 4 Crew and 1 Leader on each Deck Gun. Here is a click from the TMO19 NSS_Narwhal.upc Aft Deck Gun

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGunL
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun Leader
Type= Leader
WatchIndex= 0
IDLinkCrewMember= NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D= SDGun01
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D= SDGun01
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= headphones#Head
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= sapca
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= headphones#Head
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= sapca
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 2]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun Crew
Type= Crewman
WatchIndex= 0
IDLinkCrewMember= NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D= WM1@slot_M02
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D= WM1@slot_M02
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 3]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGunC2
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun Crew
Type= Crewman
WatchIndex= 0
IDLinkCrewMember= NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D= WM2@slot_M02
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D= WM2@slot_M02
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 4]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGunC3
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun Crew
Type= Crewman
WatchIndex= 0
IDLinkCrewMember= NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D= WM3@slot_M02
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D= WM3@slot_M02
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 5]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGunC4
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun Crew
Type= Crewman
WatchIndex= 0
IDLinkCrewMember= NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D= WM4@slot_M02
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D= WM4@slot_M02
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects= NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects= NULL

-TheBeast

P.S. WOW, the website striped some of the lines because it uses the Brackets for commands.

[popol0011]

may sound silly but.... release date far from now?

[keltos01]

By keltos001 at 2010-03-07

no no

finishing the textures n stuff

mod submitted to the team as of today, needs nex guns deck texture and she should be ready !

and RFB's settings for a sluggish boat too !

keltos

[TheBeast]

-:ZOMG!:-

She is B E A U T I F U L ! ! !

-TheBeast

[TheBeast]

I found this documentary film on WWII US Silent Service that contains a great deal of color footage. Sorry to say, I think the S-Class and Narwhal footage is all in BW but a very good view.
WWII US Submarine Pictures

-TheBeast

[keltos01]

Narwhal zon file updated :

I set the boxes for both DG to the actual position of the guns on the model.

also :

the model now uses SH427 hull texture, Hitman's gund deck texture and Peabody's modifications to the crew and damage control team.

still needed : RFB's Narwhal settings

keltos

[keltos01]

Narwhal 1.4





Thanks to Sledgehammer427, Hitman, Peabody and myself and all those who lent a hand.

keltos

She looks superb. Will her download require a new donation to SubSim or will the one from December 09 be good enough?

In any case, thanks to the entire Narwhal Team.