UK Politics Thread

[Skybird]

^ Yes. I agree on both claims.

[ikalugin]

I would say that France has the overall edge in real defense capabilities at the moment. Other member states have advantage is select military capabilities (ie Poland has better land forces).

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: UK sets out plans to replace all EU laws.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39439554

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I notice the counter balance/argument of the UK being the largest and strongest militarily and the most advanced in intelligence/security is being put forward. [..]

What an elegant circolocution of.. blackmail
I think supervision and eavesdropping of the kind as it is being done in e.g. London is maybe not a good example of how and what should be done in the rest of Europe. It is clear though that all other secret services are of course wetting themselves on getting such information, they are not subject of common law anyway or so they behave.

I do not think that threatening the EU will get England far.
Well the rest of May's letter was conciliatory enough.

[Jimbuna]

^ I'm certainly no fan of May but that part of the letter was probably included for the duel purpose of informing the EU that the UK would not be toothless in response to any attempts at punishment as well as to please those Tory backbenchers whose support she'll need to get any kind of agreement through parliament.

[Catfish]

Thanks Jim, certainly she needs the local support; I had only looked at the outside impression, but it of course makes sense.

If the Eu gets their lousy brains together they will not try to make it harder than necessary, at least i hope so.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

What an elegant circolocution of.. blackmail

Yes. The EU parliament has just threatened to veto any agreement that allows Britain to not be fundamentally ill-posed in a way that it really hurts.

Not to mention that the EU opens the process now with demanding Britain to agree to pay 60 billion in advance - before any issue-related negotiations even begin, and demanding further to have Britain paying member fees that are not called member fees after membership has ended. Thats why you cancel your membership - to continue paying membership fees. Yeah, sure.

The EU sets up far more threats and blackmailings here. Plus it wants to intimidate other european people to leave the union. You never are to leave the "union", period.

Fianncially, the EU is in the strionge rposition and can make Britian bleed terribly. But Britain can strike back as hurtingly in other fields, withdrawing military support, nuclear deterrance and intel is one of these options.

I wish more Brits would have voted for Brexit. Then my reocmmendation would be to simply headdive into a hard Brexit, boycott negotitions that are started by the EU under such poisoned preconditions, swallow the blowback and do notcare for it while orienting itself elsewhere. May bercome cotsly for Brits, yes. Poinjt is: would become as devastatingly - if not more - for some other EU members (namely Germany), and Europe as a whole. Lets find out who has more at stake if you want to play ultra tough. - With a vote of 52:48, the majority and support for such going however is not solid enough.

Germany's position in the upcoming negotiations is schizophrenic. On the one hand it want to scare other EU members from leaving the EU, and thus wants to punish Britian, on the other hand Germany damages itself by that, since Britain is the most important trading partner and export destination in the EU. Every punishment of Britain is a punishment of almost equal proportion for Germany as well. Plus Germany compensates for the most of the British EU fees that in the future will not be paid by London anymore.

So if the French could manage to get the EU punishing Britian, they claim two goals: punishing Britain, and damaging Germany.

What comes from all this? In the long run I see a military dictatorship ruling Europe as the most likely scenario. To keep things together, more or less, but also to clean up the mess the EU has left behind.

And who knows - at the time this becomes real, it might not even be the worst option.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I wish more Brits would have voted for Brexit.

Well as the months gone by listening to phone in radio stations like LBC, a lot of them are saying lets get on with it and move on. This suggests yes they lost the vote but they are not stuck in the mud like some others who are preaching doom and gloom rubbing their hands with glee hoping it will all come crashing down. Has it crossed their minds if it did they too will get hit by it.

[STEED]

Sturgeon signs independence vote request

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-39449459

So Sturgeon is going though with it, the fall of the SNP has been sealed. I predict they will loose 15 to 20 seats in 2020 general election.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks Jim, certainly she needs the local support; I had only looked at the outside impression, but it of course makes sense.

If the Eu gets their lousy brains together they will not try to make it harder than necessary, at least i hope so.

Both sides of the negotiating table will have their strategies already worked out and I suspect the major players (those with the most at risk) will be looking for a fair and workable outcome.

It is the greater number of minor players in the background (I'll not name them but they are all net receivers) who have little to lose that will need to be held in check, if that is possible.

[Skybird]

The EU has given Spain a direct veto right by supporting Spanish claims for Gibraltar. A direct jump-kick by the EU into the UK's genitals. Your hope for a fair outcome already is in ruins, Jim. The EU is set to take as much revenge on impertinent little Britian as it can. Promised. You renitent islanders must be taught a lesson that will echo through history for generations to come: "One does not show the EU to the door!" Nobody on the continent shall ever dare again to follow in your footsteps.

[STEED]

I say give them the rock back after we have blown it up.

[Skybird]

I would not mind to hand over such places like Gibraltar and the Falklands, after all they have no geographic connection to the British Fatherland. But: both places have had referendums by the local residents where in case of Gibraltar 98% or 99% of the people said they do not want to fall under Spanish rule or do not want to have shared government by both countries, but want to stay British. Case closed? Not really, 96% of the residents also said they want to stay in the EU last year when beign called to vote on Brexit. Maybe they should immediately have a new referendum or at least a polling of all residents so that we learn whether they want to leave the eU together with the UK, or want to stay in the EU and leave the UK, since this is the choice now. The will of the local residents is the utmost top priority - and every wannabe-landlord who wants to own the place, but does not, has to live with it: in this scenario - and in any other. Same is true for the Falklands. Heck, its not the medieval anymore were feudal castes claimed to own peasants.

As always I only demand that if they split with the UK, they must be able to come up for their bills all by themselves - if they join Spain after a split with London, this is just another new "country" that is a net receiver, and even if the Spaniards pay for their bills, these bills then will again indirectly be financed by the EU. I am strictly against any new members into the EU who do not pay in at least as much as they take out of it, may it be Catalunya, Scotland, wales, Ireland or Gibraltar. No additional net receivers, no matter who it is. Also, this is no issue of written laws. When London claims it can decide whether a Scottish referendum and independence is legitm ate or not, or when Madrid claism it can decide that the referendum in Catalunya is "illegal", they are against most profound human rights, and their claim is invalid and theior constitution criminal in these detailed regards. There is no such thing as slavery, and one poeple owning another. At least there shall be none.

[MGR1]

Oh, the irony.



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/...o_be_thatcher/

Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland's revenge for Margaret Thatcher.

Mike.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by MGR1

Oh, the irony. [...]
Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland's revenge for Margaret Thatcher.
Mike.

Well we will see. As long as e.g. Gibraltar's inhabitants vote for staying with the UK instead of Spain (which i'd understand ), there's not much chance for Spain to get it back.

I have mixed emotions about the coming negotiations, and development of EU and England/UK. The EU is more than an economical union, it is a lot about shared values; and when you have been abroad in the last ten years you will find this feeling and internationalism almost everywhere in the EU. Give and take a few Reichsbuerger or Great leader Farage's UKIP
The EU has of course an interest to keep the "rest" (lol) together, on the other hand the more free countries feel within the EU, the more will is there to stay. Any punishing of quitters would have a direct impact on the general perception of the EU, also inside.
There is of course a lot of sabre rattling, the show must go on after all. I think and hope the negotiations will be a lot more neutral and level than what Fox News, The Sun or Bild make of it.