Real Submarine Technology & History Q&A

[Iron Budokan]

This is a wonderful and very informative thread. I have recently gotten back into SHIV and am having a lot of fun with the modded game. This thread with all its historical information and technical detail is a direct complement to that experience.

Thanks, guys!

[Dice Holder]

im looking for blueprints of subs the only problem is i need detailed blueprints

[Gino]

Originally Posted by Dice Holder

im looking for blueprints of subs the only problem is i need detailed blueprints

Have you tried: http://www.hnsa.org/doc/index.htm ?

I don't know how much detail you're looking for, but a trip to the National Archives could help...

[Bathrone]

This is a great thread and sincere thanks for everyone who contributed to the information. I read it all in one hit, fascinating

The thing that has crossed my mind more than once is what the submariners were expected to do with their adult urges? 80 days with no women! I guess atleast in port it would help the lesser desirable women to pickup a hot sailor date as I cant say I'd have any sort of standards left from 80 days without Does she have a heartbeat? CHECK! Prepare to dive!

I wonder if it would be possible for people who've been on subs in a navy to talk about these issues in a way that doesnt attract the moderators wrath? From a tactical sense I seriously submit that the lack of sex in young males could have tactical drawbacks to their performance in operations.

The other issue I could see coming out of all this, is say young sailor has his liberty and runs a mock in the pubs, is too drunk to hookup a local woman, gets coerced by a local prostitute and he goes with that, when he manages to stumble his way back to the boat he's now got a sexually transmitted disease that will effect his performance on operations

For some reason it seems never to get discussed in submarine books that I've seen

[Lokisaga]

Hi all,
I'm wondering if someone can tell me a little bit about the warheads used in German and American torpedoes during WWII. Specifically, I'm wondering what the explosive power of Hexanite (the Kriegsmarine explosive of choice) and Torpex (USN) is in joules per kilogram. I'm trying to determine a standard frame of reference for comparing USN and Kreigsmarine torpedoes from this era.

Thanks

[TorpX]

I can't tell you as much as I would like, but I can give you a few hints.

First off, references give the warhead weight, but rarely say anything about the actual charge. I suspect the warhead wt. includes the casing, and perhaps the exploder as well.

As far as the explosives is concerned, I know the US used TNT at first, then adopted Torpex. I believe the IJN used picric acid or something based on it. I don't know much about Hexonite. I wouldn't give too much weight to explosive energy per kilogram. I don't think this correlates well with "effectiveness". Explosives were tested in various ways, and their suitability for a purpose was likely to be decided by a combination of factors. For instance, the detonation velocity, correlates well with the "shattering effect", where hull plates (or whatever) would be broken apart.

I found this list of some explosives on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativ...iveness_factor

Torpex wasn't on the list, but I've read that it was considered about 50% more effective than TNT.

By the way, I should note, some gamers use damage models, where a 100x charge is only does 10x more damage. (I consider this dubious when talking about ship hulls.) The overall model is obviously very important here.

[DieReeperbahn]

I have a question about what the crew could and could not do during their off duty time. Did they have the run of the boat, on deck, talk to their buddies, etc or were they restricted to the crew areas?

[TorpX]

The number of men on deck was always restricted. Otherwise, it would be too difficult to make an emergency dive, and the whole boat put in jeopardy. Beyond that, I don't know. Some of the crew, would not see the sun for the whole patrol.

[Redmane]

I can't recall where it came from or where it might be here (search?), but I read somewhere recollections from crew about how things were when in a patrol area. They would run submerged all day, surfacing after sundown, diving just before dawn. The air in the boat would get very foul, it was always very hot and uncomfortable as the "air conditioning" really helped only to keep the humidity down so conditions weren't so hard on the equipment in the boat. Because of this, most of their off-hours while submerged were spent sleeping to help conserve oxygen. Also, being ex-Navy (never was a submariner though) I can tell you that between normal working hours and a rotating watch schedule, 4 hours on, eight hours off is how it works, and then there are the dog-watches, 2 hours for those, there were alot of times when my sleep schedule was so messed up it was difficult to stay awake during normal working hours. So far as the ship I was on, we could go more or less anyplace on board, though hanging out on the bridge was not really an option, but I would often take a walking tour about the ship, even passing through the engineering spaces, though staying out of the way of course. There were cat-walks running through the area with a ladder access leading up into the stack, and I would climb up there and exit via the access hatch onto the upper deck, as there was almost always a nice view to be had there, and the breeze would be cool after feeling the heat in the boiler room.

[DieReeperbahn]

I suppose when the alarm sounded or battlestations, everyone would be back on duty?

[Redmane]

Yes, the actual term is "General Quarters" and every member of the crew had an assigned station, depending on rate and rating. Rating refers to your specialty, rate is rank, with respect to enlisted personnel. I was a Gunner's Mate, and since I was on a supply ship from which the AA gun mounts had been removed I was assigned to one of the damage control parties, which were stationed at various places throughout the ship. But yes, during General Quarters, everyone is expected to be on station and ready for action.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bathrone

The thing that has crossed my mind more than once is what the submariners were expected to do with their adult urges? 80 days with no women! I guess atleast in port it would help the lesser desirable women to pickup a hot sailor date as I cant say I'd have any sort of standards left from 80 days without Does she have a heartbeat? CHECK! Prepare to dive!

I was a surface sailor, but the logic, or lack thereof, is the same. You try not to think about it. You do other things. You take care of yourself, just like every young man does. I was overseas for several months, and never once strayed from my girlfriend back home. It was no more a problem than being a teenager and not having had that experience yet. You live with it.

From a tactical sense I seriously submit that the lack of sex in young males could have tactical drawbacks to their performance in operations.

Then you know little of human performance where sexuality is concerned. When you're on duty you think about the job. If you don't think about the job, and you make mistakes, you get in trouble. Mostly you do your job and don't worry about it.

The other issue I could see coming out of all this, is say young sailor has his liberty and runs a mock in the pubs, is too drunk to hookup a local woman, gets coerced by a local prostitute and he goes with that, when he manages to stumble his way back to the boat he's now got a sexually transmitted disease that will effect his performance on operations

This is why they have regular 'short-arm' inspections. Remember the scene in Das Boot where the sailors are all lined up in front of the Sani (Corpsman/Medic), getting checked? That's what they do, and that's how they do it. The biggest danger is that your crewmates will find out and give you grief for being unfaithful to your wife/girlfriend. Overall crew performance is unaffected.

There. Now it's been discussed. By a moderator.

[fireftr18]

Originally Posted by Redmane

Yes, the actual term is "General Quarters" and every member of the crew had an assigned station, depending on rate and rating. Rate refers to your specialty, rating is rank, with respect to enlisted personnel. I was a Gunner's Mate, and since I was on a supply ship from which the AA gun mounts had been removed I was assigned to one of the damage control parties, which were stationed at various places throughout the ship. But yes, during General Quarters, everyone is expected to be on station and ready for action.

My understanding, on subs, most of the crew members had two jobs. One was a day to day job that's covered by regular duty shifts. Then, for lack of better term, a "general quarters" job. Which was covered by the members while "off duty." Is that accurate? Is it the same on a surface ship?

[Redmane]

Originally Posted by fireftr18

My understanding, on subs, most of the crew members had two jobs. One was a day to day job that's covered by regular duty shifts. Then, for lack of better term, a "general quarters" job. Which was covered by the members while "off duty." Is that accurate? Is it the same on a surface ship?

Yes, I think this is fairly accurate. I'm not so sure about subs, since I was never on one, but I don't see why it would be much different. The crew is divided up into divisons, which relate to specialties. You have a normal work routine, which for the most part involves maintanence. For watches, your particular division, depending on what its specialty is, would be assigned a specific duty, for instance, deck division would handle all the lookout posts. As a gunner's mate my division was assigned to maintain the radar contact status board on the bridge. For General Quarters, once again the assignments are made, though this is based on the performance of the crew at their different jobs, that is, how efficient are they at doing "X?" Then there were some different aspects to the whole workings because being on a supply ship we also did underway replenishment. Transfer of supplies to other task force units while moving at sea. Once again, deck division would handle rigging and operating the tranfer equipment. I as a gunner's mate had the fun task of using a line throwing gun to send a starter line to the ship along side which would eventually be used to get the span-wire for a fuel hose or a high-line across and secured on the other side. So given the general purpose of the ship in question, some of these things would vary of course, but that's pretty much how it went in my experience.

[Nuc]

This is an interesting post war (1949) training film featuring footage of Tench, Balao and Guppy boats. It does describe wartime organization and support.