US 'cannot allow' nuclear N Korea (Merged)

Originally Posted by DanCanovas

no but we know he starves his own people while constructing nuclear weapons. If you have have no care for humanity then I can see your point, leave him be. But if you do care for humanity then you have to dislike the freak.

I care about humanity, but at the same time I don't see how N. Korea is really our concern. I say, cutt ties with Japan and let them deal with N.Korea. That goes for China as well.

I am more of a believer that if you don't step on my toes I won't kick you in the shins....If you do step on my toes, prepare to walk funny the rest of your life.

This means that I think the middle east should be dealing with their own problems

This means that the asians in the south pacific region should be dealing with their own. If N.Korea is ever foolish enough to lauch first, then I say go all out on them. For every 1 nuke they have, we have a 1000 or more, so it would be complete suicide for them to even consider launching nukes at us.

Kim Jong Il may be starving his people to death and things may be bad for them. So why don't THEY do something about it? I think its HIGH time that THOSE people stand up and take control of their futures and quit waiting from some miracle nation to come along and win control for them.

[Iceman]

Everything done on thje planet effects everyone else don't you see that.To sit idly by as others prepare to commit atrocites is unaccpetable. I understand your pov but you need to try to see, that to sit back with the "Wait and see approach" is folly.After the nukes fly it will be too late....after Iran has launched a nuke at Israel it is too late.I am not saying, nor promote pre-emptive strikes, "Unless" the potential striker has professed time and time again of there intentions twords one of it's neighbors.To me they are like a child that Must be removed on behalf the rest of humanity who doesn't want to particularly die today...and for the rest of the world to sit back and not join in unity behind a country trying to preserve life then they cannot ,or have anyplace to speak angainst a country trying to secrure life,liberty,freedom.Whether or not a country wants these things is not the point the point is to have a planet left for our children.You either fight for what you have or it will be taken.Ergo the mess we have everyone fighting for what they think is right.

You decide though SubSerpent....is telling your neighbor that you would wipe them off the map if you had the chance correct?...and if so then why would you be surprised when the same is done to you before you can do what you said you would?

I know this was about Korea but it matters not, whovever the aggrerssor is the same is true.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Everything done on thje planet effects everyone else don't you see that.To sit idly by as others prepare to commit atrocites is unaccpetable. I understand your pov but you need to try to see, that to sit back with the "Wait and see approach" is folly.After the nukes fly it will be too late....after Iran has launched a nuke at Israel it is too late.I am not saying, nor promote pre-emptive strikes, "Unless" the potential striker has professed time and time again of there intentions twords one of it's neighbors.To me they are like a child that Must be removed on behalf the rest of humanity who doesn't want to particularly die today...and for the rest of the world to sit back and not join in unity behind a country trying to preserve life then they cannot ,or have anyplace to speak angainst a country trying to secrure life,liberty,freedom.Whether or not a country wants these things is not the point the point is to have a planet left for our children.You either fight for what you have or it will be taken.Ergo the mess we have everyone fighting for what they think is right.

You decide though SubSerpent....is telling your neighbor that you would wipe them off the map if you had the chance correct?...and if so then why would you be surprised when the same is done to you before you can do what you said you would?

I know this was about Korea but it matters not, whovever the aggrerssor is the same is true.

I'm not sure I'm following you here so I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for?

The first sentence isn't for me to decide. I am just a pawn in the scheme of the world so I don't see how it's my decision to make. My opinion is another thing altogether and it doesn't count for much either in the world scheme.

No I don't believe someone should wipe their neighbor off the map.

I'm not worried that anyone in this world is planning to, or crazy enough to use nuclear warfare. Even the craziest of the crazy people would know that this would just end them as well.

I HIGHLY doubt Kim Jong iL would use them on anyone, even his most hated foe, Japan.

He is just mad (as well as he should be) that the world keeps telling him, "NO. You can't do that and you can't do this". It's his country to run the way he see fit IMHO. If the people of N.Korea feel so oppressed by his rule THEY need to rise up and take it from him, not the US or any other nation.

It would be impossible for them to fail. What are Kim Jong iL and his loyalist going to do, kill EVERYONE of them? He's not that stupid. He knows that the more people he kills off of his own the less powerful he becomes to the world. If he killed them all off, N.Korea would just have 1 person living in it and that would be Kim Jong iL. Then he would have no country to run or rule and the south would easily march up North and claim the extra land.

I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes. It would be impossible in a post 9/11 world for them to get away with it and set it up to look like Russia or china did it for instance. We in the US would know for sure who it was and then it would be BYE BYE time for all of the middle east, because the US WOULD go all out crazy and nuke the whole damn world for just 1 nuke going off in our country.

This wouldn't even work out for their cause and just mean the death of themselves and their families as well. Nobody wants to die in this world unless they are suicidal. The terrorist aren't suicidal. If they were, they would just turn their AKs around and put them in their mouths and pull the trigger.

Yes, they use suicidal tatics to their advantage but so did Japan in the 2nd world war and Japan didn't want to destroy the existence of life on Earth. Japan had world take over on its mind and so do the terrorist. They don't want to end ALL life.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

I'm not sure I'm following you here so I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for?

The first sentence isn't for me to decide. I am just a pawn in the scheme of the world so I don't see how it's my decision to make. My opinion is another thing altogether and it doesn't count for much either in the world scheme.

No I don't believe someone should wipe their neighbor off the map.

I'm not worried that anyone in this world is planning to, or crazy enough to use nuclear warfare. Even the craziest of the crazy people would know that this would just end them as well.

I HIGHLY doubt Kim Jong iL would use them on anyone, even his most hated foe, Japan.

He is just mad (as well as he should be) that the world keeps telling him, "NO. You can't do that and you can't do this". It's his country to run the way he see fit IMHO. If the people of N.Korea feel so oppressed by his rule THEY need to rise up and take it from him, not the US or any other nation.

It would be impossible for them to fail. What are Kim Jong iL and his loyalist going to do, kill EVERYONE of them? He's not that stupid. He knows that the more people he kills off of his own the less powerful he becomes to the world. If he killed them all off, N.Korea would just have 1 person living in it and that would be Kim Jong iL. Then he would have no country to run or rule and the south would easily march up North and claim the extra land.

I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes. It would be impossible in a post 9/11 world for them to get away with it and set it up to look like Russia or china did it for instance. We in the US would know for sure who it was and then it would be BYE BYE time for all of the middle east, because the US WOULD go all out crazy and nuke the whole damn world for just 1 nuke going off in our country.

This wouldn't even work out for their cause and just mean the death of themselves and their families as well. Nobody wants to die in this world unless they are suicidal. The terrorist aren't suicidal. If they were, they would just turn their AKs around and put them in their mouths and pull the trigger.

Yes, they use suicidal tatics to their advantage but so did Japan in the 2nd world war and Japan didn't want to destroy the existence of life on Earth. Japan had world take over on its mind and so do the terrorist. They don't want to end ALL life.

I appreciate your response.

If it isn't for you to decide who's is it?...

"I don't even think the terrorist are stupid or crazy enough to use nukes."

This is a gamble that you are willing to take...I am not....and it is my duty and obligation to my children,my friends here and in Israel or in Tim-Buck-TOO to make sure threats like these are addressed and setteled.

Again thk u for your respone.

[Happy Times]

US 'cannot allow' nuclear N Korea

The US will not accept a North Korea armed with nuclear weapons, a top US envoy has said, days after Pyongyang announced plans for a nuclear test.

North Korea must choose either to have a future or to have nuclear weapons "but it cannot have them both", top US negotiator Christopher Hill said.

He did not specify how the US would respond if a nuclear test took place.

The US wants allies to present a common front against the test plans, but talks at the UN have been inconclusive.

"At this stage, there's division," said the US envoy to the UN, John Bolton.



However, state department spokesman Tom Casey said the US hoped to see "some action there in the near future".

Russia and South Korea have said that North Korea's plans to conduct a nuclear test are unacceptable.

Their foreign ministers, Sergei Lavrov and Ban Ki-moon, agreed in a telephone conversation that a test would only aggravate the situation, Russia said.

The new Japanese Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, is to visit China and South Korea in the next few days.

Diplomatic drive

Mr Hill, Washington's top envoy at stalled six-party talks with North Korea, said the US was rallying its allies in a diplomatic push against Pyongyang.

"I am not prepared at this point to say what we are going to do but I am prepared to say we are not going to wait for a nuclear North Korea, we are not going to accept it," he said.

South Koreans gaze into the North through binoculars on the border
The true extent of the North's nuclear programme is unknown

He said North Korea had reached "a very important fork in the road - it can have a future or it can have these [nuclear] weapons but it cannot have them both".

Mr Hill said the message had been conveyed to Pyongyang's envoy at the UN but had yet to elicit a response.

Mr Hill, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have been in touch with their counterparts in Asia and Europe over the North Korea's planned nuclear test.

They want to send "a strong and unified signal... that these kinds of threats are certainly not acceptable", a state department spokesman said.

Mr Hill has had nuclear talks with North Korea in the past while Mr Burns plays a key role in America's diplomatic efforts to combat Iran's nuclear programme.

Sanctions

China has appealed for calm saying it hopes North Korea will "exercise the necessary calm and restraint".

It says the issue should be handled in a revival of six-nation talks.



North Korea announced its plans for a nuclear bomb test on Tuesday, saying it would boost security in the face of US hostility.

It is thought to have developed a handful of warheads but never before announced it would test one.

US and South Korean reports suggest the North has at least one underground test site.

The North appears increasingly angry at sanctions imposed by the US and other countries on North Korean businesses accused of arms sales and illegal activities.

In 2002, it restarted its nuclear reactor at Yongbyon and forced two UN nuclear monitors to leave the country. It is unclear how far work has progressed at the plant since then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/5408246.stm

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

I'd say the US is dollar short and a day late then.

If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.

Originally Posted by Happy Times

If N-Korea will get it S-Korea and Japan will follow suit. Just like if Iran has one so will the Saudis and maybe Turks. Im starting to think we need one also.

Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?

[August]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

Why not? Everyone should have some in their arsenal IMHO! They are never going to be used for anything more than to collect dust though.

I can understand the want for nuclear energy and to stop using so much of the worlds precious oil. Maybe if everyone had nuclear energy there would be less demand for the oil?

You two must realize that the more countries and groups that have nuclear weapons the more likely that someone will eventually pop one or fifty off right?

Originally Posted by August

You two must realize that the more countries and groups that have nuclear weapons the more likely that someone will eventually pop one or fifty off right?

I disagree! I don't think that there is a person in this whole world that would EVER be crazy enough to use them. For starts, the people under the government of that country would most likely take over their government for even thinking about doing something so nuts, secondly no government would be crazy enough to even consider using them in the first place against another nation that has them.

I think most of these smaller countries like N. Korea want them for self protection. They fear that if they are ever attacked or taken over by a larger nation (like the US) that their whole world would have come to an end. If they have nukes then no country would ever be foolish enough to attack them to begin with.

Look at the US and China for example. China has nukes and USA has nukes. We are both afraid of each other because of this and therefore there will NEVER be a fight between us, NEVER!

If one nation doesn't have nukes and the other one does, there is a MUCH GREATER chance of war happening between them.

It's just like fighting. You wouldn't get in a fight with someone you knew could stomp your a-- into the ground. You'd find a way to avoid it. If you knew you could beat them to a bloody pulp then you would!

[August]

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

I disagree! I don't think that there is a person in this whole world that would EVER be crazy enough to use them. For starts, the people under the government of that country would most likely take over their government for even thinking about doing something so nuts, secondly no government would be crazy enough to even consider using them in the first place against another nation that has them.

It'd be nice if you were right but I don't have any faith in that theory at all.

First off, if you look hard enough you can find someone willing to do anything, including being willing to destroy the planet in a global thermonuclear war.

Secondly, in a country like North Korea the nation goes to war on just one mans say so. No congressional oversight here, Kim would have no problem getting his military to fire a nuke in anger if he wanted it. As for his people, they would never even know about it until afterwards and even then only if the government told them. This is a country where the peoples news and information is 100% state controlled.

And lastly, a nuke can be covertly delivered to its target as easily as it can by missle or bomber. The Chinese, the USA and the Russians may have enough nukes between us to wipe out the entire planet a hundred times over but if we don't know who sent it, how could we respond?

Look at the US and China for example. China has nukes and USA has nukes. We are both afraid of each other because of this and therefore there will NEVER be a fight between us, NEVER!

Bull. India and Pakistan, both nuclear armed nations, have gone to war several times and managed to keep it conventional, the US and China have fought a war too.

But Mao certainly could have ordered a nuclear strike if he chose to, and so could have Stalin, and their orders would have been obeyed without question. You seriously underestimate the power of an entrenched dictatorship. Troops march, ships sail and bombs go off on the word of one man and if that man is insane he is capable of anything.

It's just like fighting. You wouldn't get in a fight with someone you knew could stomp your a-- into the ground. You'd find a way to avoid it. If you knew you could beat them to a bloody pulp then you would!

Again Bull. The nuclear armed might of the United States is capable of instantly vaporizing every muslim country on the planetbut that didn't stop Al Quaeda from attacking us on 9-11, nor would our western social values, which they don't share stop them from using a nuke if North Korea or someone else gave it to them.

[Yahoshua]

Had Germany acquired the bomb they would've used it. Had Japan acquired the bomb, they would've used it against the United States.

Had Germany held out longer than the Japanese, refusing to surrender, we would've bombed Germany as well. Nuclear weapons were nearly used against the United States in the Cuban missile crises.

That nutjob in Iran, equal to the terrorists in Iraq, would be willing to annihilate the arabs near Israel in order to wipe Israel off the map.

Communists have no morals, why should they care whom they hurt, maim, injure and kill. Arabs justify murdering their own brethren by claiming that the deaths of the shachids (martyrs) would give the "collateral damage" a free-ticket to paradise, and the victims would get the same ride.

People are capable of the most gruesome atrocities because they become desensitized to it. If a Waffen SS trooper or an NKVD agent can slit the throats of women, smash children against rail cars, torture, drown, and ultimately kill those who are defenseless with their own hands, how much more difficult is it to achieve the same end with the press of a button?

Not difficult at all.

=========================================

August, are you referring to the "Silent Wars" b/w China and the U.S. as being that of the armed conflicts in Korea and Vietnam?

Curious here.

[August]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

August, are you referring to the "Silent Wars" b/w China and the U.S. as being that of the armed conflicts in Korea and Vietnam.

Korea, but there was nothing silent about 270,000 Chinese troops attacking across the Yalu river.

[Yahoshua]

"Silent" being that we never actively declared war on the Chinese but were involved in battle with them.

[Bort]

It is precisely this sort of situation that formed one of the cornerstones of my argument not to have invaded Iraq. North Korea is a far more dangerous state than Iraq ever was, and now has the bomb and a possible means of using against the USA. If we had not gone into Iraq, we could mobilize a massive military response, similar to the Cuban Missile Crisis, reinforcing our forces in South Korea by at least an additional division, preferably several, in addition to multiple CVBG's and additional Air Force Wings from the US in order to show that we will not tolerate a nuclear test. Instead we are handcuffed to idle and noncommittal threats by a lack of deployable forces. The North Koreans tend to be very dense when negotiating, but they do understand force-look no further than Operation Paul Bunyan for proof.