Greywolves TOO hard!! - Page 4

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-06-06, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Gruber

I'm happy with NYGM and GW running together, I think the ship damage model is brilliant and very very realistic. I have never yet had to fire more than 3 Ts into a ship to get it to sink.

However, I do have one issue. Sometimes, to finish off a ship and to save Torpedos, I surface, catch some fish and throw them at it. I've noticed that it can take up to a million fish to sink a boat, yet othertimes I can sink it with a a couple of well placed Tuna or a particularly nasty smelling Mackeral.

Is this normal ? From what I've read about U-Boats, it should be possible to sink a ship with 10 Cod say, and half a dozen pieces of Halibut. Perhapps a little attention to realism is needed here.

One swordfish or a few rounds from the jellyfish cannon should do every time.

Dowly · 04-06-06, 08:03 AM

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Catfish · 04-06-06, 08:44 AM

Hello,

first thanks to the new mods, SH3 looks much more like the real thing.

Don't know whether that's NYGM or GW related - since i just installed it, and have not much experience with the new mods (running GW and NYGM, with the merged campaign here) i just had an encounter with some destroyers in Scapa.

I managed to get by the sunken ships (great!) through Holms sound into Scapa Flow, and intended to wait and look around, cruising at 2 knots and periscope depth, silent running, periscope down. When i come near a stopped destroyer (near as some 1500 m) suddenly all hell brakes loose. This very destroyer comes right at me, drops 4 DCs, and that's it. Additionally all other destroyers are heading directly to my position. Having so much leaks the boat is sunk in a minute. Well, what did i expect entering Scapa Flow lol.

But: According to this a stopped destroyer can get its boilers under pressure in less than 10 seconds, its hydrophone station is manned when it is anchored in a harbour, and it is able to get an exact position on an unsuspected U-boat at 1500 m distance immediately, speed, course and depth known. Since a boat at PD is not easily detected i wonder what's happening here sim-wise ? I mean it is still september 1939 - what kind of detection systems do those destroyers have ?! When i think of Oesten and his statement that "it was much easier in reality" i begin to understand ...
Making a sim more real in a way should not incorporate making things unnecessarily hard - this is not "realistic" either.

Are all those destroyer sonar and hydrophone fixes i remember from a year ago not implemented in the GW or NYGM mods?

Greetings,
Catfish

Stev1 · 04-06-06, 09:39 AM

Same here, l can't even sink a Cargo ship with a Full load of Torpedoes and a full load of Ammo from the Deck Gun.

bsalyers · 04-06-06, 10:34 AM

The problem with sinkings sounds an awful lot like what happens when you hit a ship too high on her water line. When I first started playing the stock game, it happened to me all the time. I know it's still possible to break a ship's back in GW if you hit her right; I've done it.
I don't think we have enough info yet to conclude that people are getting corrupt downloads or different versions. It would be very helpful if someone who is having trouble ran some tests at lowered realism with external view and event camera on, dud torpedoes off, to see exactly what is happening.
Also, in GW, BdU sends out radio messages in '39 describing flaws with the torpedoes and instructing kapitans to turn magnetic pistols off and aim high (love that realism). Is this actually modelled in the game, Kpt. Lehmann? If so, it would explain a lot of difficulties.
I'd sure like to see this mystery solved.
:hmm:

tycho102 · 04-06-06, 11:27 AM

Some cargo ships were notoriously difficult to sink, in a large part due to the actual kind of cargo they were carrying.

Warships are difficult because they are so compartmentalized. However, their current "material condition" should also come into play, and I seriously doubt Ubisoft modeled that into the game. Two torpedoes into a "yoke" will flood a lot more space than two into a "zebra". Contrary to popular belief, even in times of war, a warship does not cruise around at zebra. A modified zebra, sometimes, but the beer must flow and closed doors slow the flow.

Putting two torpedoes into the same area should do a lot more flooding than two in seperate areas, depending of course on the actual compartment you're breeching. That outer hull is very thick, and if you can slip a torp past it, you've got a much better chance of cutting into vital piping and ballasting. But this isn't modeled, either.

Other than that, everyone needs to remember that with mechanical detonators (impact dets), you need perpendicular hits. This is completely modeled, although it might not be modeled all that great. You've got a cone of about 35 degrees, and outside that, the pin doesn't stike hard enough.

If your torps aren't going off, you are hitting the boat too low -- where the hull is so curved, you cannot get a flat hit with a torpedo -- or you aren't perpendicular with it's heading. If the draft is 9.5m, don't shoot below 6m on impactors. If the draft is 3.5m, don't shoot below 2m. (basically, 60% of it's draft)

bigboywooly · 04-06-06, 01:16 PM

i found the grey wolves mod really cool - the layout of the gui was clean and crisp and had no problem sinking ships however found that had too much lag and screen freeze which i never got in stock game so have gone back to stock with a few tweaks - pity tho twas cool

donut · 04-06-06, 01:26 PM

I must agree with SubSerpent,encounter with Tramp Steamer 2,000 tons:first,no smoke! Steamers smoke.Three torp.impacts,one in the sweet spot,she did not sink.Surfaced,220 rounds from deck gun,lots of flames,she did not sink,dead in water.Rammed her,she sank! No credit in kapt.log,no ship sunk icon.If this is GW.mod,to tough! Suggestion:Ship Distroyed.Message,if deralict refuses to sink,with credit. Deck Gun is useless.IMHO.GW.needs a patch.

bsalyers · 04-06-06, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donut

- encounter with Tramp Steamer 2,000 tons:first,no smoke! Steamers smoke

This is interesting and adds support to the theory that people have different/corrupt versions of GW; every steamer I've seen has been smoking up a storm.

Dowly · 04-06-06, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsalyers

Quote:

Originally Posted by donut

- encounter with Tramp Steamer 2,000 tons:first,no smoke! Steamers smoke

This is interesting and adds support to the theory that people have different/corrupt versions of GW; every steamer I've seen has been smoking up a storm.

Same here.

ref · 04-06-06, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

i found the grey wolves mod really cool - the layout of the gui was clean and crisp and had no problem sinking ships however found that had too much lag and screen freeze which i never got in stock game so have gone back to stock with a few tweaks - pity tho twas cool

Have you tried using the stock sea floor mod ?, in my case it restore the fps almost to the unmoded game rate.

Ref

Der Teddy Bar · 04-06-06, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Putting two torpedoes into the same area should do a lot more flooding than two in seperate areas, depending of course on the actual compartment you're breeching. That outer hull is very thick, and if you can slip a torp past it, you've got a much better chance of cutting into vital piping and ballasting. But this isn't modeled, either.

A torpedo is non penetrating, that is, it is like using high explosive. It is not like using an Armour Piercing round.

As we all know, HE was used for the bridge area etc and AP for the water lineâ€¦ If exploding against the object was so effective then AP rounds would not exist in the navy.

Two torpedoes into the same area will cause some additional damage and certainly increase the speed of flooding. BUT, it is not to be presumed that it will cause any additional flooding and it is almost a guarantee that it will not cause anywhere near the same loss buoyancy as targeting a different area.

bsalyers · 04-06-06, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref

Have you tried using the stock sea floor mod ?, in my case it restore the fps almost to the unmoded game rate.

Maybe I'll try this, too. My game runs pretty well, but there is some stuttering. Is the high-res sea floor rendered every time you play, even if it's not being displayed?

Der Teddy Bar · 04-06-06, 03:23 PM

When a miss looks like a hit. From the read me.

Quote:

Angle of impact
The third issue was that though the impact pistol was designed to detonate at an angle of 21Âº. It was found to often, but not always fail at an angle equal to and less than 50Âº due to the 180Âº design that had a high chance of jamming. This issue was not fixed until the end of 1942 after the Germans copied the British design of the torpedos from the captured British submarine, HMS Seal.

This is well represented in Silent Hunter III.

What happens in game is that the torpedo bounces off the curved hull and sinks down detonating at depth, this give the appearance of â€˜hittingâ€™ the ship as the water detonation is beside the ship. But of course the torpedo has exploded at a great depth.

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-06-06, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donut

I must agree with SubSerpent,encounter with Tramp Steamer 2,000 tons:first,no smoke! Steamers smoke.Three torp.impacts,one in the sweet spot,she did not sink.Surfaced,220 rounds from deck gun,lots of flames,she did not sink,dead in water.Rammed her,she sank! No credit in kapt.log,no ship sunk icon.If this is GW.mod,to tough! Suggestion:Ship Distroyed.Message,if deralict refuses to sink,with credit. Deck Gun is useless.IMHO.GW.needs a patch.

Read this Donut... Read all of it.
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0

Furthermore, the deck gun is not useless. To use the Deck Gun in GW properly, you must aim below the waterline.

Remember too that opinions are not bugs.

If you feel that things are not working as planned, you may have a bad download.

There are two other things that you can do too...

Before running GW... as stated in the readme, delete the "SH3" folder in C:/My Documents. GW requires a new SH3 folder to be generated by the simulator to function properly.

If you feel you have a bad download... you do not need to re-download the entire mod. Just re-download part four and enable it in JGSME.

04-06-06, 11:27 AM	#6
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Some cargo ships were notoriously difficult to sink, in a large part due to the actual kind of cargo they were carrying. Warships are difficult because they are so compartmentalized. However, their current "material condition" should also come into play, and I seriously doubt Ubisoft modeled that into the game. Two torpedoes into a "yoke" will flood a lot more space than two into a "zebra". Contrary to popular belief, even in times of war, a warship does not cruise around at zebra. A modified zebra, sometimes, but the beer must flow and closed doors slow the flow. Putting two torpedoes into the same area should do a lot more flooding than two in seperate areas, depending of course on the actual compartment you're breeching. That outer hull is very thick, and if you can slip a torp past it, you've got a much better chance of cutting into vital piping and ballasting. But this isn't modeled, either. Other than that, everyone needs to remember that with mechanical detonators (impact dets), you need perpendicular hits. This is completely modeled, although it might not be modeled all that great. You've got a cone of about 35 degrees, and outside that, the pin doesn't stike hard enough. If your torps aren't going off, you are hitting the boat too low -- where the hull is so curved, you cannot get a flat hit with a torpedo -- or you aren't perpendicular with it's heading. If the draft is 9.5m, don't shoot below 6m on impactors. If the draft is 3.5m, don't shoot below 2m. (basically, 60% of it's draft) __________________ My little Silent Hunter 4 repository

04-06-06, 08:03 AM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,053 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	:rotfl: :rotfl:

04-06-06, 08:44 AM	#3
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,767 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, first thanks to the new mods, SH3 looks much more like the real thing. Don't know whether that's NYGM or GW related - since i just installed it, and have not much experience with the new mods (running GW and NYGM, with the merged campaign here) i just had an encounter with some destroyers in Scapa. I managed to get by the sunken ships (great!) through Holms sound into Scapa Flow, and intended to wait and look around, cruising at 2 knots and periscope depth, silent running, periscope down. When i come near a stopped destroyer (near as some 1500 m) suddenly all hell brakes loose. This very destroyer comes right at me, drops 4 DCs, and that's it. Additionally all other destroyers are heading directly to my position. Having so much leaks the boat is sunk in a minute. Well, what did i expect entering Scapa Flow lol. But: According to this a stopped destroyer can get its boilers under pressure in less than 10 seconds, its hydrophone station is manned when it is anchored in a harbour, and it is able to get an exact position on an unsuspected U-boat at 1500 m distance immediately, speed, course and depth known. Since a boat at PD is not easily detected i wonder what's happening here sim-wise ? I mean it is still september 1939 - what kind of detection systems do those destroyers have ?! When i think of Oesten and his statement that "it was much easier in reality" i begin to understand ... Making a sim more real in a way should not incorporate making things unnecessarily hard - this is not "realistic" either. Are all those destroyer sonar and hydrophone fixes i remember from a year ago not implemented in the GW or NYGM mods? Greetings, Catfish

04-06-06, 09:39 AM	#4
Stev1 Medic Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 164 Downloads: 205 Uploads: 0	Same here, l can't even sink a Cargo ship with a Full load of Torpedoes and a full load of Ammo from the Deck Gun.

04-06-06, 10:34 AM	#5
bsalyers Sparky Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 152 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	The problem with sinkings sounds an awful lot like what happens when you hit a ship too high on her water line. When I first started playing the stock game, it happened to me all the time. I know it's still possible to break a ship's back in GW if you hit her right; I've done it. I don't think we have enough info yet to conclude that people are getting corrupt downloads or different versions. It would be very helpful if someone who is having trouble ran some tests at lowered realism with external view and event camera on, dud torpedoes off, to see exactly what is happening. Also, in GW, BdU sends out radio messages in '39 describing flaws with the torpedoes and instructing kapitans to turn magnetic pistols off and aim high (love that realism). Is this actually modelled in the game, Kpt. Lehmann? If so, it would explain a lot of difficulties. I'd sure like to see this mystery solved. :hmm:

04-06-06, 01:16 PM	#7
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	i found the grey wolves mod really cool - the layout of the gui was clean and crisp and had no problem sinking ships however found that had too much lag and screen freeze which i never got in stock game so have gone back to stock with a few tweaks - pity tho twas cool

04-06-06, 01:26 PM	#8
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I must agree with SubSerpent,encounter with Tramp Steamer 2,000 tons:first,no smoke! Steamers smoke.Three torp.impacts,one in the sweet spot,she did not sink.Surfaced,220 rounds from deck gun,lots of flames,she did not sink,dead in water.Rammed her,she sank! No credit in kapt.log,no ship sunk icon.If this is GW.mod,to tough! Suggestion:Ship Distroyed.Message,if deralict refuses to sink,with credit. Deck Gun is useless.IMHO.GW.needs a patch.