SH3 still top thanks to Starforce/ All SF post here

[Sonarman]

While we are still a bit off topic...
Here is a LINK to a forum posting on Starforce written by a Developer at Ubisoft into a report done by Ubi into the Starforce controversy. it is quite interesting reading and specifically mentions SH3.

To quote the article by MuadDib_FC on SH3

The second (problem reported) is with cd/dvd functions problems (no more read/write) reported with Silent Hunter 3. Out of 11 such problems reported, only 2 cases were solved. The problem could not be reproduced, and the origin could not be found. It is suspected not linked with Starforce. It could be due to a defective manufacturing of the cd in the first place, as this is appearing only with one game title. On a statistics level, it is still very low, around one user out of a fifty thousands (0.002%).

[Sonarman]

..

[U-4053]

Sorry if the word kill offends you, I come from a back ground where my personnality is Abrupt and to the point.
And I havent seen any evidence in black and white other than someone saying that 20% of all machines bought in for repairs were involved with star Force.
All I care About is, will this stuff hurt my machine?
No one can say Yes it will, I do hear that several people have had problems since the installation of this software, Although it appears to be the culprit here , no one is 100 % certain.
At least from what I've seen.
But I have already diqualified myself from being any type of PC expert, So as I said before I have to trust in what people such as your selves say about this sort of thing.
So for all the other non Techies out here don't let us down . do your home work.
When I did Police work if I didnt cross every t and dot every I A criminal would go free, so look at it like that , make sure all your T's and I's are done and then put the suspect away.
Acusations and asumptions are not enough to gain a conviction .
This type of forum is how problems get solved, it is also how a lot of belly aching is done, sort the wheat from the chaff and geter done.


Charlie

[ThirteenthHouR]

In relation to the recent Interviews. lets get some things clear.

1. To meet the criteria for the time slot the interviews have to be heavily edited.

2. No Broadcaster is going to make the mistake of Broadcasting specific issues that could open them up to legal retribution (be such action valid or not).

3. Nobody with the slightest understanding of what Ring 0 actually is. Would ever want anything of a non hardware status installed in Core of the system. To correct the interviewer (To be fair he is not a Computer Engineer). Starforce is actually 3rd party software existing as a virtual device along side a hardware device. By its very nature it must interfere with the normal IDE data streams to obtain its data from the disk. (Be that CD/DVD or more recently Hard Drives).

To have any 3rd party software running in this area of the system is a major security issue, if it wasn’t would there be any Legal action against Sony for exploiting very similar techniques?

Recently (Although reluctantly I may add given the nature of how this information can be used in the wrong hands) I have disclosed an example of just how easy it is to exploit SF.

A number of you will remember the 'BufferOverflow' issue with Windows 98 and Internet Explorer:

Basically in this scenario a malicious website with use Java script or a bogus active X component to pop up 1000's of windows on you system. This had two purposes. ! they where rigging advertising click through’s for profit, the other was to saturate the system to such a level that the data Buffers could not cope. Hence the 'BufferOverFLow error'.

Why trigger this?

Well basically each time a window is opened from a website, this opens a virtual port. By triggering this error it stops Firewalls and Anti virus in their tracks. Leaving ports wide open to your system.

This rarely occurs these days because the ‘industry responded to the security issues’. Most browsers now have built in pop up blocking, Active X signatures etc. As well as user side Firewalls and Anti Virus monitoring for this type of activity.

So we come back to Starforce;

1. Do we have anything to prevent SF the IDE streams being flooded with data?

Ans: No! all protection software it told to ignore it as its Copyright Protection.

2. Do we have anything that monitors BufferOverflow in the IDE system.

Ans: Yes, however SF is not actually part of the IDE system, its like leech feeding off it. Injecting its own anti blocking agent so it gets its maximum flow of its nourishment (IDE Stream Data)

3. Is this exploit easy to recreate?

Ans: Yes, its alarmingly easy.


Whats the cure?

Well the best cure is not to have SF on your system in the first place. However if that cannot be avoided, then lets at least get Anti-Virus and Firewall Software companies to stop ignoring SF.

OK that is not really a fix as SF is Ring 0 and has more authority than any 3rd party software, but at least it will help stop so called "Beginner level Hackers" from killing your hardware.


I would add that certain boss from Starforce Technologies is willing to make comments, however he is not willing to get into an open debate with those of us that know just how SF works and how impractical it really is in the real world.

So I will end this comment with a response from Nerva (Root Admin) Security Technologies (Starforce) Technical Support Forum.

This is an unedited copy and paste of his respnse, obviously English is not his first Language.

Hi again!

I'v forwarded your reauest to our programmer, who make whole drivers work.

Could you plz contact him to research the problem closer togehter? (if yes i''ll give you his e-mail)

Right now he has no idea whats going on. After we fined any solution or start to understand the problem cearfuly - we could make some forum post on it.

I had expected an unusual response, but in no way did I expect Nerva to drop such a bomb shell concerning their programmer “Right now he has no idea whats going on�.

As we say here in the UK can you really question it when it comes “Straight from the Horses Mouth�?

They honestly do not know what is going on or how to fix the problems.

What more solid proof can be presented that the SF team admitting this?

[Herr Karl]

Silent Hunter III user manual

Page 4 Getting Started-System Requirements (last paragraph)

[Quote] NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some disc and vitual drives.

*Now what those conflicts are exactly are not specified. Obviously Ubisoft and Starforce were aware in advance that issues could develop.

[VonHelsching]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

There is also a big opportunity for UBI if they do a Japanese localised version of SH4 or include Japanese playable vessels. - Japan's population is equivalent to 43% of the US population! and to my knowledge there has never been a true subsim released in the Japanese language which could equate to a huge number of sales.

UBI has the opportunity of involving more than US and Japan in this sim, ie UK and the Netherlands. This could also be done by providing some (no more than 2) japanese and one UK subs (plus the capaigns) and keeping the rest (plus the Monsoon boats ) for an expansion pack

On topic, now: Although SH3 is the second best game I have ever seen (after the Civilization series) and the community is far more mature and enthusiastic, I do believe that SF played at least a minor role in the game's success, because it seems that delayed the emerging of a pirated version of the 1.4 update.

But this delaying whould not mean anything if the game did not have the durability that it presents. So many months have passed and we still see exciting mods and modpacks to appear. Probably, also the target group of this sim involves a lot of people above their 30s with kids and family, who do not change their games every week.

But my opinion might be biased and wrong, since I am very picky on which games I buy. It would be interesting to learn about other recent games' fates and how SF affected their success.

[Soulcommander]

Herr Karl

NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some disc and vitual drives.

*Now what those conflicts are exactly are not specified. Obviously Ubisoft and Starforce were aware in advance that issues could develop.

This is a good point that I made last year sometime in June.

Some other information:

I also posted a UBI letter from Benoit in France recently on the Ubi Forums after I was being called a liar from Ubi's own Dev team, saying to me that there was no changes taking place at Starforce like I said there was.

They were slandering me and fellow Ubisoft customers asked me to please post the letters to stop the Moderators at Ubi and the Devs from calling me a liar.

So I broke my ban got a different account and posted the letters.

In this letter Benoit indicates to me that Starforce is undergoing some changes and In Benoits own words said:

"By compatibility Lab, I mean Star Force will widen its scope of PC configurations and optical drives brands & models. And more over it will be an external lab so they will have to face what they found. I know this is not done yet but at least this a progress we hope to be enhancing their behaviour.

I will not post the letters here but if you search the Ubi forums in the Heros of Might and magic area you will find the letters posted.
As long as they haven't deleted them also as they have went through a massive Deleting of posts concerning Starforce problems that people were having.

I have document after document showing how I was helping Ubi and now they seem to have closed the doors. So this unwillingness by them to find out what is going on is now no more.

So my support of buying any games from them is OVER.

I have hung in there with them for almost a year now and there own Dev team and moderators seem to know less information than I do. Seems a bit strange doesn't it?

SC

[U-4053]

WOW, Thats Serious.
Im wondering now if My drives have been effected?
I know My Asus 5224A started having problems, but I took it out and got a Plextor , and put the Asus into another machine where SH III isn't installed and it appears to be running fine.
I have also Noticed that A few weeks ago I was able to Burn Music files onto Imation Disks but now I get an error as thought the Media is not compatable.
This is very interesting .


Charlie

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by U-4053

I have also Noticed that A few weeks ago I was able to Burn Music files onto Imation Disks but now I get an error as thought the Media is not compatable.

You could try the SF driver update:
http://www.star-force.com/support/sfdrvup.zip

Or try the SF removal tools:
http://onlinesecurity-on.com/downloads/sfdrvrem.zip

If it works after removing SF you know that it is a SF-related problem.

[Soulcommander]

Back on topic again. If you check your Ubi stocks you may find that Ubi isn't doing to well as you suggest with this beginning thread.

Have a look and see: http://yahoo.reuters.com/stocks/Quot...symbol=UBIP.PA

A short Blurb: PARIS, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Shares in Ubisoft (UBIP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) fell 10 percent on Friday after Europe's second-largest video games publisher cut its financial goals for the full year 2005/06, blaming weak markets in the United States and Europe.

[ThirteenthHouR]

Originally Posted by U-4053

WOW, Thats Serious.
Im wondering now if My drives have been effected?
I know My Asus 5224A started having problems, but I took it out and got a Plextor , and put the Asus into another machine where SH III isn't installed and it appears to be running fine.
I have also Noticed that A few weeks ago I was able to Burn Music files onto Imation Disks but now I get an error as thought the Media is not compatable.
This is very interesting . Charlie

It sounds like you may have DMA step down issues. Look here.

http://www.r-force.org/modules.php?n...=viewtopic&t=1

[ThirteenthHouR]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

You could try the SF driver update:
http://www.star-force.com/support/sfdrvup.zip

Or try the SF removal tools:
http://onlinesecurity-on.com/downloads/sfdrvrem.zip

If it works after removing SF you know that it is a SF-related problem.

Removing SF won't cure the problems if the Kernel Stack has already been messed up by SF. You have to physically reset the IDE (DMA) speed again.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by ThirteenthHouR

Removing SF won't cure the problems if the Kernel Stack has already been messed up by SF. You have to physically reset the IDE (DMA) speed again.

That´s right, but in his case it´s worth a try. If that and/or a driver update doesn´t help he can try your advanced method.

[U-4053]

Giz You GUys Thanks for the Help on this Issue.
What is DMA?................And how Do I physicalloy reset it ?

I can do alot of stuff with a Computer but I have never head of this sort of stuff so its a bit like looking at a Menue written in Chinese.
Thanks alot for the Files and update info.
And Once I reset my DMA will start force just mess it up again?
And how often will I have to reset my DMA ?
To avoid Running Space on this thread feel fre to IM me or e-mail me with teh response it will save some headach for moderators .

[Soulcommander]

Originally Posted by U-4053

Giz You GUys Thanks for the Help on this Issue.
What is DMA?................And how Do I physicalloy reset it ?

I can do alot of stuff with a Computer but I have never head of this sort of stuff so its a bit like looking at a Menue written in Chinese.
Thanks alot for the Files and update info.
And Once I reset my DMA will start force just mess it up again?
And how often will I have to reset my DMA ?
To avoid Running Space on this thread feel fre to IM me or e-mail me with the response it will save some headach for moderators .

To answer your question you first would want to see if your cd or dvd rom drive is running in pio mode. If it is you may have an affected drive.

To correct this go here: http://www.r-force.org/modules.php?n...=viewtopic&t=1

Follow the instructions.

And yes as long as Starforce is installed on your system, you will want to check your drives often. If you don't you could end up with drive failure.

To check to see if your drives have already stepped dowm from Dma to pio do the following.

1. Right click on my computer and choose properties.

2. Click on the hardware tab.

3. Click on Device Manager.

4. Click the + sign in front of IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.

5. Start with the primary and right click and choose properties.

6. Click on the tab that says "Advanced Settings" and look at "Crrent Transfer mode" Make sure it does not say Pio mode.

7. If it does then follow the link I provided you at the top and follow those instructions.

If you caught it in time then after you follow the procedures in the above link everything should reinstall. But if there was already "Hardware Failure: then you may see that your computer can't reinstall dma mode drivers after you do your reboot. (Again following the link above)


Hardware failure occures:

A lot of new CD/DVD hardware is not PIO mode compatible. Thus any period of time being used in this old 16bit mode
can be interpreted by some drives as attempts to Overburn/Read an excessively over burned disk.

I.E in over burning you force the laser to go right to the edge of the disk.
This results in the laser in many cases hitting the side
casing of its guide and in turn, stripping the threads off the worm gear.

Basically it trashes the hardware.

Some drives also interpret the search for specific sectors indicated by SF as an over burn read/write command.



SC