I HATE THIS CRAP!!!!

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

Movies and stories are required to have good guys and bad guys, antagonists and protagonists... It is needed for the purpose of moving along the plot in an exciting fashion, and in U-571, it just so happens that the Germans are portrayed as the antagonists.

Otherwise without this "good-guy-bad-guy" concept, you would have a historical documentary, such as Tora Tora Tora. There, you will see nothing but a rendition of history, or as close as can be.

And it would be wise to note that historical movies don't generate very much revenue, especially when compared to a-historical movies, which have some fact, but mostly fiction.

so in fact what we have is a similar situation to that which plagues computer games ---sim versus arcade---

and it's a cirular situation--as we all no doubt remember from our childhoods it was only when we were "forced" or encouraged to stop eating sweets and start eating adult food that we actually started to develop a taste for it--and in the end began to actually prefer genuine meals over "toffees"----

the brain is no different--- give it a constant diet of "sweetys" and it will allways "balk" at genuine food---as we know the reasons for the "balking" are not genuine (in the true sense of the word)--

i believe that it is hugely important for the race as a whole that we should be training the average guy/woman on the street to develop a taste for genuine adult food--(of all sorts)

to illustrate the point think of those subjects mass media designates as "adult" at the moment---and what do you find--porn and violence

perhaps they should start giving films like "tora tora tora" and games like SH3 an adult classification----you begin to see my point i hope--

[Marhkimov]

No, actually I was more referring to Western tall tales, Ancient legends, and Greek mythology.

Obviously, the content of many such elaborate stories are not true. But they do serve a purpose, and a very good one at that. It's called STORYTELLING.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

No, actually I was more referring to Western tall tales, Ancient legends, and Greek mythology.

Obviously, the content of many such elaborate stories are not true. But they do serve a purpose, and a very good one at that. It's called STORYTELLING.

i don't think it's entirely fair to compare Homer's Illiad to U571 (tho i take your point)
it's not the fact these tales are told but rather how they are told and for what reason---nothing has actually changed regarding the telling of storys
except that when the Illiad was written only those who could read could actually gain access to it--limiting the need for it to be aimed at a mass market--(if indeed that was the intention)

now a days most every body has access to story telling--via the visual arts (meaning in this case) movies et al

we all have the capacity (taken as a whole) to understand and enjoy complex story telling-- and it's in this way often we learn about life --

politicians could do with learning from this--if they encourage the production of more complex tales thru the mass media then folks will develop a taste for them over time (quite quickly i suspect with some clever intermediate spin doctoring making them temprarily "cool" untill folks become accustomed)

BUT they them selves would then have to demonstrate more openess and transparancy regarding their policys and political stance- in order to satisfy the general publics more acute collective "brain" as it were--

perhaps they allready do--

nah---couldn't be--

[Marhkimov]

I also see your point. Society would be better off without "bad" movies if it had more "good" movies.

But this in itself is a subjective matter...

[Abraham]

Real good war movies don't picture the 'bad' side (Germans, Japanese) as purely bad and the 'good' side as purely good. Examples are evident: 'The Longest Day', 'Tora, Tora, Tora!' and 'Das Boot' in the past, 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Band of Brothers' not too long ago. It makes a movie more recognisable, more convincing.
Because, let's not be hypocritical and face it; with all this 'good side' & 'bad side' stuff - of which I am absolutely convinced by the way - the tragedy is that there were good guys fighting on the bad side and bad side fighting on the good side as well...
Just my opinion.

[Marhkimov]

And anyways, U-571 was discreet enough not to paint the Germans as the total bad guys. And neither were the Americans portrayed as the total good guys.

One was simply the protagonist (the main complement of the story) and the other was simply the antagonist (the group opposed to the protagonist).

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Abraham

Real good war movies don't picture the 'bad' side (Germans, Japanese) as purely bad and the 'good' side as purely good. Examples are evident: 'The Longest Day', 'Tora, Tora, Tora!' and 'Das Boot' in the past, 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Band of Brothers' not too long ago. It makes a movie more recognisable, more convincing.
Because, let's not be hypocritical and face it; with all this 'good side' & 'bad side' stuff - of which I am absolutely convinced by the way - the tragedy is that there were good guys fighting on the bad side and bad side fighting on the good side as well...
Just my opinion.

i agree--and it's exactly why in todays ever more complex world governments should be encourageing the production of mainstream complex story telling - or re-counting of historical events --if for no other reason than to prepare their populations for dealing with the ever changing political economical and cultural world situation---other wise were left with the bizarre situation of certain folks being the "good guys" on monday afternoon---only to be told their the "bad guys" on tuesday morning--with no genuine attempt to explain the change in stance---(very Orwellian indeed lol!) as you say bad guys and good guys fighting on both sides of the fence not allways for the immediately obvious reasons or having agendas of their own--

[Marhkimov]

How about this?

If you guys want to see a movie with an excellent portrayal of role-reversal, make sure you watch the Star Wars saga. There is no doubt about why this series has made a legend of itself.

If you want to see an unhistorical and "bad" movie, go to movie store and take your pick. 99% of them probably fit in that category.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by Marhkimov

How about this?

If you want to see a movie with an excellent portrayal of role-reversal, go and watch the Star Wars saga. There is no doubt why this series has made a legend of itself.

If you want to see an unhistorical and "bad" movie, go to movie store and take your pick. 99% of them probably fit in that category.

exactly