ImprovedConvoys Beta and UnRealUBoat - Udated: 03-25

[sdcruz]

hi Jason

Are you saying that in real life ships went down during a convoy and the destroyers were unaware of this?

Haven't heard that before.

This convoy was attacked at dawn so the visibility was not 100 % good - in BE39 - April 04 1941

Regards

[Wulfmann]

I think I said it, not Jason but we are also trying to find such things and figure out ways to make them act more realistic. Many times U-boats attacked and it was thought to be an aircraft or mine. Also by placing the ships at 900 instead of the 4-600 normal I wonder if that effected the way the game sees things. I have certainly had some that stayed away but also many that don't and anytime I hear a "We have been detected sir" (English transaltion) the escorts are on the way quickly. In the early convoys which may likely have a Frigate (Sloop in real life, Frigate to SH3) and 1-3 trawlers which means if you attack deep in the large convoy it might only be the trawlers that react and they are slow.
If that is not chllending enough start in 1941 or 42. You will not find the escorts so friendly.
Wulfmann

[CCIP]

Heh, right... and then in 1944 you will find them too friendly, as they'll be happiest to relieve you of the misery of not being able to lose them at all

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by sdcruz

hi Jason

Are you saying that in real life ships went down during a convoy and the destroyers were unaware of this?

Haven't heard that before.

This convoy was attacked at dawn so the visibility was not 100 % good - in BE39 - April 04 1941

Regards

I am saying it's possible they knew an attack happened and couldn't find anything at the most likely vector of attack, so you weren't detected or prosecuted.

Granted in SH3 it's more like they don't even know you're there and just ignore the burning ships. But that's simply the result of a lame AI.

[CCIP]

It's possible enough, if a bit farfetched. There's certainly no guarantee you'll get detected, and a lot of the time they'll simply be looking for you in the wrong place, if they're just 'newbie' escorts.
You just ran into some 'greens'. It certainly can happen.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by CCIP

It's possible enough, if a bit farfetched. There's certainly no guarantee you'll get detected, and a lot of the time they'll simply be looking for you in the wrong place, if they're just 'newbie' escorts.
You just ran into some 'greens'. It certainly can happen.

I just did up a quick OG(Early|Late) along with some other corrections. I ought to put up a new version after I test it. Then I can look at HG. It's a shame the routes start and stop such that I can't include any CVEs. HG41 starts at the end of 1940, which is about a year too early for a CVE. I guess I could extend HG to the end of 1941 almost and start HG41 in Dec of 41.

I don't know if CVEs really maintain any kind of CAP, though.

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by jasonb885

I don't know if CVEs really maintain any kind of CAP, though.

They do so far as I'm aware! You might want to ask Jace how much though, seeing how AirPower also tweaked this aspect.

[sdcruz]

Jason

It was convoy OA and OB that I encountered in april 1941.

Regards
Shelton.

[Jace11]

They are just floating airbases. However the crew quality has effects on not just the quality of aircraft they spawn, but how frequently and effectively they attack.

Best chances of an effective defence are from an Elite carrier, though veteren and even competent skill levels should produce a response.

Competent Airbase Modifier=1.0 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=2.0 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=3.4 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.2 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=40

eg 80% chance a Vet Carrier will spawn aircraft to attack you per air session (2x40).

Carrier airgroups are set at 4 planes. You can increase this if you wish, however, restoring the numbers to 24 Hurricanes on a fleet carrier will make any aircraft encounter seemingly endless.

Consider airgroup size more as "sortie" size, the number of aircraft sent to attack a single target or patrol an area. They seem to be replaced if lost anyway.

If you approach a convoy with a CV, you should encounter no more than 4 aircraft at a time (usually two pairs).

This was in response to some testing I did, and several people complaining that the entire Fleet Air Arm was after them.

[sdcruz]

ok looking at that convoy OB - there were three escorts that were to spawn with probability greater than 75%, and all had a crew rating of 1 - so no wonder I did not get attacked after torping the ships.

Regards
Shelton.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

With all the mods I am getting some CTD. Is what Berry describing regarding the sonar mod a cause? I can't go back to stock but CTD is also unacceptible to me.

Because the actual data is misplaced in the file by one byte it is a possibility, but doubtful. If it was the cause I think we would have seen more people experiencing CTDs over the past weeks, as this error has been in the mod for a while now. On the other hand, the sonar bug would be only rarely encountered, so it's possible.

More likely is that some mod conflicts with another, or some other sort of file corruption. How often are you getting crashes? If it's something like once per patrol I'd say it's unlikely that it has to do with the sonar bug, because the sonar bug only affects one particular sonar type, so it would be unlikely to turn up that often. If you're getting crashes every few patrols, then it's a possibility, but I usually find that CTDs are most often caused by some weird file corruption or conflicting mods. Also, when exactly dothe crashes occur? If it's while you're in combat, that points to the sonar bug because it would happen when the ships switched on their sonar. If it's not in combat, that points to something else.

[Beery]

Originally Posted by CCIP

It's possible enough, if a bit farfetched. There's certainly no guarantee you'll get detected, and a lot of the time they'll simply be looking for you in the wrong place, if they're just 'newbie' escorts.
You just ran into some 'greens'. It certainly can happen.

I agree. I just watched The Cruel Sea a few days ago, and the impression I got from it was that many times the escorts had no idea where an attack came from, and unless they were lucky and had good equipment, they would be totally in the dark and the U-boat could simply wander off fairly safely. This was especially the case in 1939-41.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by sdcruz

ok looking at that convoy OB - there were three escorts that were to spawn with probability greater than 75%, and all had a crew rating of 1 - so no wonder I did not get attacked after torping the ships.

Regards
Shelton.

That's odd. Should not be. I don't have any crews with poor ratings?

[jleslie1004]

Hi All,

I just tried to drop Improved Convoys into my SHIII, and when I tried to go into the game I got the "send/don't send" crash at the point just before you are dumped into your boat at the "Initializing..." screen.

I immediately uninstalled the mod and tried again, and went into my boat normally.

I'm figuring the reason I got the crash is because in my save game file I'm in visual range of a convoy - what appears to be HX39, and the mod is trying to change the parameters of an already spawned convoy. Also, I'm wondering if the mod should be installed from a fresh install of SH3? I hate to have to do that because I've done a lot of my own tweaking of different mods to get the game where I like it, and frankly I don't remember exactly what all I've changed.

I just want to know if anyone agrees that may be the cause of the crash. I hate to have the mod cause me to have to reinstall or something at this point, because I'm having a wonderful streak of good luck with this particular patrol and I hate to lose it. I'll wait until after I've left the convoy area to install it if that's all the problem was.

EDIT: Just noticed the post directly above mine after I posted.....

Originally Posted by jasonb885

That's odd. Should not be. I don't have any crews with poor ratings?

Is there anything hardcoded in SHIII that still throws a random variable into these scripts? I've seen that in other games - no matter how heavy you script something, the game still has a random variation thrown in just to insure you don't see the exact same thing twice.

Reason I ask is the HX39 convoy in my above example doesn't quite fit the mold of the script included in the original campaign file. According to the original script, there should be 2 British Clemson DD's (100% probability) with a 70% probability of a Canadian Flower and another 70% chance of a British Flower, with a grand total of 15 ships. I have the 15 ships, but there was only a single Flower as escort. Following the script, there should be a Clemson out there too, but there isn't.

Just a thought.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by jleslie1004

Hi All,

I just tried to drop Improved Convoys into my SHIII, and when I tried to go into the game I got the "send/don't send" crash at the point just before you are dumped into your boat at the "Initializing..." screen.

Yep, it has to be installed once you're back in port. Modification of the RND layer during a mission results in a crash.

Originally Posted by jleslie1004

...

...
Reason I ask is the HX39 convoy in my above example doesn't quite fit the mold of the script included in the original campaign file. According to the original script, there should be 2 British Clemson DD's (100% probability) with a 70% probability of a Canadian Flower and another 70% chance of a British Flower, with a grand total of 15 ships. I have the 15 ships, but there was only a single Flower as escort. Following the script, there should be a Clemson out there too, but there isn't.

Just a thought.

Correct. The Clemson cannot spawn yet. It's either a bug or the developers were abusing the roster so the convoy would be less escorted until later in '39. Flip a coin.