The RUb Deck Gun discussion, since it keeps coming up.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by -Dreadnought-

I am curious, why does it take 3 minutes to reload the deck gun in the Real U-boat Mod? I think about 45 seconds or less wouldbe enough...

Make sure that you have a qualified (gunner qualification) deck gun crew (full green bar), then it takes 60 seconds to reload the 88mm. The 105mm takes 70 seconds IIRC.

CCIP has modded the reload times, please read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39760

[-Dreadnought-]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Make sure that you have a qualified (gunner qualification) deck gun crew (full green bar), then it takes 60 seconds to reload the 88mm. The 105mm takes 70 seconds IIRC.

CCIP has modded the reload times, please read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=39760

Are we talking about the newest RuB version?

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by -Dreadnought-

Are we talking about the newest RuB version?

It´s the same for older RUb version.

I think that the misunderstandings In this discussion are because you are talking about two completely different things -
situation A - putting 200 rounds in a ship;
situation B - putting 20 rounds in a ship.

it gets the intended realistic results for the situation A,
However, it gets unrealistically slow reload times for situation B, as mentioned by many others, and as agreed by Beery (5 minutes to fire 20 rounds, wasn't it so ? and 15 minutes for 30 rounds.)

This is what I dislike - shouldn't situation B, getting a quick coup-de-grace, be the absolutely most common historically usage of the deck gun, and situation A - just a few acts of desperation ?

I understand that the game hard-codes too much to get a correct simulation in both cases, however, shouldn't the idea be to focus that the usual, common situations would work correctly, instead of the rare cases ? What use is having the exception cases work realistically, while the common usage is unrealistic ?

I am saying that the timing should be adjusted so that the time to fire ~30 rounds is realistically accurate (so a reload time of 30 seconds), even if it disrupts the 200 round issue - since the 200 round situation is an exception, but the 20-30 round situation is the one that must work properly.

[Emcon]

I am saying that the timing should be adjusted so that the time to fire ~30 rounds is realistically accurate (so a reload time of 30 seconds), even if it disrupts the 200 round issue - since the 200 round situation is an exception, but the 20-30 round situation is the one that must work properly.

Good point! I agree with you.

[Beery]

I am saying that the timing should be adjusted so that the time to fire ~30 rounds is realistically accurate (so a reload time of 30 seconds), even if it disrupts the 200 round issue - since the 200 round situation is an exception, but the 20-30 round situation is the one that must work properly.

In reality it often took many more rounds than 20 to sink a ship. The game makes it far too easy to sink ships with the deck gun. In reality the deck gun was used rarely. RUb's deck gun reload rate makes the deck gun almost as hard to use effectively as it was in reality. If anything, RUb's deck gun needs a further nerf, since it is still more effective than real deck guns were. I just can't figure out a way to make it realistically weak.

Why make RUb's deck gun more effective when it is still more effective than real deck guns were?

[Emcon]

Beery:

The first 40 rounds could probably be fired in 27 minutes (an average of 41 seconds per round).

This is probably including aiming time, this means an even lower reloading time than 41 sec.

Personally if I suspect that I have to fire more than 40 rounds, I use a torpedo. But mostly I use the deckgun for sinking fishing ships, which takes less than 20 rounds. Which really justifies a lower reloading time.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

DIE thread DIE!

We don't need you anymore.

[TheCabal]

Hello guys,

this MOD rocks.... but lets get serious now: do we really need to chase a almost sinking ship (looking from behind he was leaning almost 45° to the right for at least 2 hours....... moving in zick-zack too) for hours to get it sleeping with the fishes through the useless deck-gun?

plz tell me if there is something to change in some INF file/whatever.... you know this sucks (especially if you shoot into the water accidently.... you never know)

its a good thing to make a realistic mod, but don't forget that some things just have to be game-style.


greetz,
cab

[ref]

Deck Guns

The deck gun was principally intended as a defensive weapon against small surface vessels, for which the torpedo was not a suitable weapon. During World War I however, it was discovered that deck guns were quite effective when used against stragglers and helped save scarce torpedoes. During World War II, as convoys became better protected, and merchantmen began to be armed with makeshift defensive guns, the deck gun was used less frequently. Eventually, BdU phased them out, though some U-boats still retained the deck guns.

There were two standard deck guns during World War II; the 8.8cm (on Type VII) and the 10.5cm (on Type IX). The U-boat however, was a poor gun platform since it rolled a lot, and ocean waves frequently washed over, making the gun platform slippery and hazardous. To prevent the crews from being washed over, they were fastened with life lines. A further factor was deck guns had no range finders, so engagements had to be done at close range. Depending on sea and weather conditions, it was also not possible man the deck gun at all times. The deck gun also contributed much to hydrodynamic resistance, slowing the underwater speed and increasing crash dive time. Indeed, deck gun engagements made the U-boat very vulnerable; since the gun and ammunition had to be secured and the crew had to get below deck, all of which meant that it took much longer than usual to submerge.

Three men operated the deck gun – gunner, layer and loader, usually under the supervision of the second watch officer. A chain of men were required to bring the ammunition from below the control room floor, then up the conning tower and onto the upper deck. A small watertight locker placed near the gun held a few more rounds ready for use, providing an advantage during the first few vital seconds of engagement. The rate of fire with a good crew was 15 to 18 rounds per minute.

Sorry to bring the subject up again, but I´ve just find this, and I want to know if the data can be acurate, I don't think this rate can be sustained under battle conditions, but I also think that 1 minute to reload a gun is realistic.

the hole article is in:

http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-deck-gun.shtml

Ref.

[Marhkimov]

Speaking about real-life, the deckgun cannot be used as a primary weapon.

If we use our sense of logic, one would understand that a tiny little gun such as the 88 or the 105 will neither do much damage nor be very effective against any type of shipping. And if one understands that much, then one would presumably be less worried about the horrendous load times of the RUb deckgun.


- However -


...for those of us who would like better gameplay rather than super realism, by all means you should change the deckgun reload times. I know I did.

it is likely that the 4 hour attack was something like this:

30 minutes of rapid fire followed by 15 minutes to watching flames and thinking that the ship was about to sink. (Like was pointed out many u-boat captains thought ships were destroyed when in fact they survived.)

Then another 30 minutes of rapid fire followed by another 30 minutes of just watching the new flames - the captain would not want to waste all his ammo so he would allow long pauses to see what the outcome would be.

Likely the last hours were filled with even longer quiet pauses. As for the movement of shells the Captain could station many men below decks to carry the shells to the hatch area for the men on deck.

I think the real problem with the deck gun is that it is simply to powerful. The shell fire rate should be reduced 15 sec. but the power of those shells needs to be greatly reduced in stead.

also the 4 hour shelling that was mentioned does not report what the weather was like that day. Maybe the weather was really bad - I read of an account someone mentioned here last Spring about a u boat shelling a ship when water was up over the feet of the gun crew.

In all events I agree that the deck gun is simply to uber.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Something else to think about....

When you reduce the damage potential of both the 88mm and the 105mm deck guns to something closer to realistic...

It really makes your reload times unimportant, because it then becomes a question of total damage potential and ammunition supply.

... You shouldn't have enough ammunition to sink more than a couple of ships with your DG.