Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

[Wolferz]

Both sides of the aisle have been complicit in the divide and conquer strategy.

Once a politician gets elected, they get indoctrinated to siddown and shaddup. Do your duty with the insider trading scheme and Wall Street will make you and your staff rich beyond the dreams of Avarice.
Once a junior rep gets a taste of that pie they become worthless to those who elected them.

[Admiral Lutjens]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yep, heard that one before. Everything that's wrong with the country is aways the fault of the "other side". It's just what your opponents do, and they're just as convinced they're right as you are. Me, I don't have a side. Would you care to discuss the subject, or is a tirade the preferred method of communication these days?

I'm always open to discussion.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Admiral Lutjens

I'm always open to discussion.

Cool. I just tend to get my back up when someone starts blaming the other side for everything. I think it started when I read the 1800 newspaper headline promoting John Adams for re-election: " If Jefferson is elected, murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes."

[Admiral Lutjens]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Cool. I just tend to get my back up when someone starts blaming the other side for everything. I think it started when I read the 1800 newspaper headline promoting John Adams for re-election: " If Jefferson is elected, murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will be openly taught and practiced, the air will be rent with the cries of the distressed, the soil will be soaked with blood, and the nation black with crimes."

Nice touch! If you haven't watched the series on John Adams, I'd highly recommend you do so. Washington didn't believe in political parties, and Adams was a Federalist. I don't have a party designation, but I do kind of consider myself a new-age Federalist.

It's not so much me blaming the 'other side' as I'm neither Democrat or Republican, it's moreso me blaming the status quo. I can relate and respect the Tea Party movement because they're standing up to and directly challenging the status quo, and that's a refreshing concept to see in this day and age.

People disparage these folks because it's almost like they're stunned that people would have the audacity to run against them. In the last couple of cycles, several 'establishment' candidates got bumped out office. I firmly believe in term limits and respect the constitution.

However, the Tea Party gets absolutely blasted at every turn by folks from both sides of the aisle. Labels such as 'crazy' or 'racist'....just silly and unfounded attacks. Why does the establishment attack them? Because they fear the Tea Party. The Tea Party champions truly placing the power back with the individual, and to the establishment, that's dangerous.

If you watched Obama's SOTU speech, basically it was a couple name drops here and there to help with the mid term elections, and the rest of was talking about how he's not getting his way so he'll find a way to get things done whether anybody likes it or not. Case in point, this president is the most dangerous, overreaching ideologue this country has seen in generations. I firmly believe he didn't even want to be president, but was coaxed into it by the powers-at-be after his keynote address at the 2004 DNC because he'd be the perfect tool to further a social agenda that's been on the mind of many egalitarians in this country for a long time.

And I firmly believe that he is doing just that, and because of that, we all are in trouble. Then we have Hillary and Elizabeth Warren potentially running in the next election....I'm genuinely fearful of the road this country is going down. 9/11 was the turning point in this nation's history, and it's all downhill from here.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Admiral Lutjens

Nice touch! If you haven't watched the series on John Adams, I'd highly recommend you do so. Washington didn't believe in political parties, and Adams was a Federalist. I don't have a party designation, but I do kind of consider myself a new-age Federalist.

Watch it? I own a copy. At the same time I'm loving it I also find myself complaining about the things they left out, most of which was so as not to confuse the audience.

Adams a Federalist? Don't tell Hamilton that. By the standards of wanting the Constitution passed, Washington was a federalist (small 'f'), as was Madison. Hamilton supported Adams mainly to keep Jefferson, whom he hated, at bay. Adams accepted Federalist aid, but once in office he was quite independent. Once Adams did things Hamilton didn't like, Adams was suddenly no more Federalist than Washington or Jefferson.

It's not so much me blaming the 'other side' as I'm neither Democrat or Republican, it's moreso me blaming the status quo. I can relate and respect the Tea Party movement because they're standing up to and directly challenging the status quo, and that's a refreshing concept to see in this day and age.

Fair enough. I don't like Obama myself, but when I see people blaming him for anything and everything I just have to say something.

However, the Tea Party gets absolutely blasted at every turn by folks from both sides of the aisle. Labels such as 'crazy' or 'racist'....just silly and unfounded attacks. Why does the establishment attack them? Because they fear the Tea Party. The Tea Party champions truly placing the power back with the individual, and to the establishment, that's dangerous.

Ultra Liberals hate the Tea Party because at heart the party is still quite conservative. Hardcore Republicans hate the tea party because the party is stealing some of their thunder. That seems fairly obvious to me. Both sides hate the fact that there is a third party which has actually gained some momentum. That's the status quo that's really being disrupted, and most of us are resistant to change.

The bad news for the Tea Party is that they really aren't organized or centralized. This makes it easy for the party's fringe elements to engage in questionable activities, and it makes it easy for opponents to blame those activities on the party itself.

I'm genuinely fearful of the road this country is going down. 9/11 was the turning point in this nation's history, and it's all downhill from here.

Possibly, but the losing side of every election for the past two hundred years has said the same thing.

[Admiral Lutjens]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Watch it? I own a copy. At the same time I'm loving it I also find myself complaining about the things they left out, most of which was so as not to confuse the audience.

Adams a Federalist? Don't tell Hamilton that. By the standards of wanting the Constitution passed, Washington was a federalist (small 'f'), as was Madison. Hamilton supported Adams mainly to keep Jefferson, whom he hated, at bay. Adams accepted Federalist aid, but once in office he was quite independent. Once Adams did things Hamilton didn't like, Adams was suddenly no more Federalist than Washington or Jefferson.


Fair enough. I don't like Obama myself, but when I see people blaming him for anything and everything I just have to say something.


Ultra Liberals hate the Tea Party because at heart the party is still quite conservative. Hardcore Republicans hate the tea party because the party is stealing some of their thunder. That seems fairly obvious to me. Both sides hate the fact that there is a third party which has actually gained some momentum. That's the status quo that's really being disrupted, and most of us are resistant to change.

The bad news for the Tea Party is that they really aren't organized or centralized. This makes it easy for the party's fringe elements to engage in questionable activities, and it makes it easy for opponents to blame those activities on the party itself.


Possibly, but the losing side of every election for the past two hundred years has said the same thing.

I didn't know much about Adams until watching the series really sparked my interest in him. The feuds between those men are very entertaining to read about. With Aaron Burr right in the thick of things too.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Admiral Lutjens

I didn't know much about Adams until watching the series really sparked my interest in him. The feuds between those men are very entertaining to read about. With Aaron Burr right in the thick of things too.

Those guys (all of them) have always been a particular favorite subject of mine. My favorite part of the series was Laura Linney's portrayal of Abigail. Of course there wasn't an actor in the show I didn't like. Have you seen the old George Washington miniseries with Barry Bostwick and Patty Duke. It has some flaws, and it has a completely different flavor than John Adams, but it is well worth seeing. Also there's Sally Hemings: An American Scandal, which takes some extreme historical liberties and speculates quite a bit, but in my estimation Sam Neill gives the best characterization of Jefferson ever, which makes it well worth seeing. It also has Mario van Peebles as James Hemings, Rene Auberjonois as James Callender and Mare Winningham as Jefferson's daughter Martha. Overall worth seeing.