Syria conflict: 'Chemical attacks kill hundreds' - Page 4

MH · 08-23-13, 06:27 AM

No there was three and there was this one who had a beer.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-23-13, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

This will jog your memory perhaps?

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/index.asp

As for other forms:

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/emergencyp...des/nerve.html

Thanks!

It has been quite long time since I last read of this stuff.

Skybird · 08-23-13, 09:35 AM

It is interesting to remember that there is some inside-Syria observer group - I forgot the name but it often gets mentioned in news reports when reporting from Iraq, I just read it this morning again - with known close ties to the rebels, that this group so far still is hesitant to confirm that there has been a chemical event at all.

Could be because they know it was not Assad, but their friends. Could be because they still have no final verdict. Could be the deliver the evidence right now while I'm typing. Could be that there indeed was no event. Well, an event it was, but maybe not what is claimed it was.

The inspectors in Syria right now, as far as I remember form the news have permission to go to three places, all of which are low in priority and possibility to create evidence against Assad. That is what I mean when laughing about politicians demand that Assad and the rebels should allow inspections. It reminds me of one scene from the movie "V Vendetta" where the masked man asks Natalie Portman whether she doesn't find it amusing herself that she asks a masked man who he is. That question is pointless in itself, and the demands to allow inspectors in are pointless in themselves. One could as well ask on TV who the bank robber is, and tell him that he should raise his hand voluntarily and hand himself over to the police. One could also declare crime illegal, and forbid lying. Certainly would help a lot.

Mr Quatro · 08-23-13, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If irrefutable proof is obtained that Assad is responsible I'm wondering what if anything President Obama will do.

I also am wondering what he will do ... at first I thought our country had no proof that Syria was using these types of weapons. So I discerned that President Obama was right in his usual approach of fence sitting, which cost us one US ambassador already (unproven of course, but more information will be forth coming).

Any fence sitting that protects US forces is okay with me. Now I suspect he is waiting for the UN to decide if chemical weapons have been used and while he waits he is using the phones to stir up international action against the Russian backed Syrian forces.

Notice that even President Bush did not act alone in Iraq, but used several international countries armed forces to intercede with them on the final push for Bagdad. Using a consortium provided cover for everyone being strictly against the USA.

I hope USA boots on the ground would be more in line to secure such chemical weapons from ever being used again and then leave the area in a hurry ... leaving the conflict to played out between the Syrian forces and the rebels that were reported to be in control of the eastern parts of the city that were bombarded with these chemical weapons.

If these weapons should fall into the wrong hands Israel will be the next nation with photos of children wrapped in white lien.

Can't figure out why Syria would do this with UN observers already in the city?

but hey I'm just a arm chair CNN observer lol

mapuc · 08-23-13, 03:44 PM

Let us presume that Assad have used chemical against his own people:

Do you think it's all USA/NATO need to start bombing in Syria.

They need a lot more information before they can bomb syria

Markus

Wolferz · 08-23-13, 04:08 PM

Doesn't all of this sound profoundly similar to the pre-invasion of Iraq rhetoric?

The sheeple are distracted by the dancing puppet show while their pockets get picked by the real criminals.

CaptainMattJ. · 08-23-13, 04:43 PM

Chemical weapons are horrendously more cruel than a bullet. Have you never seen all the pictures of horribly disfigured people, who's skin is falling off and in unbearable pain? Nerve agents, biological warfare, mustard gas, all much, much worse than getting shot.

Aside from being burned alive or brutally tortured, chemical weapons easily top the horror of being shot or dying in an explosion. If you're in the kill radius, explosions are quick and easy. Chemical agents can take days to kill, and assuming you survive it, you can easily be left with permanent disfiguration and health issues.

As for a response, it would be a very bad idea to put any kind of significant number of boots on the ground. Many of our "short-term" conflicts started with "well only be here a few weeks, with a few thousand men".

eddie · 08-23-13, 07:59 PM

The so called experts from the West finally guess as to what happened.

"They suspect an organophosphate agent, most likely sarin gas, was involved in Wednesday's attack. However, the basic chemical agent may have been mixed with other substances acting as preservatives and perhaps also to alter or add to the effects of the gas.
"Because they are non-persistent agents, they dissipate very quickly," said Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former head of Britain's military counter-nuclear, biological and chemical warfare force and now a private contractor.
"In pure military terms, the idea is to drop these things on a population, kill lots of people very quickly, and then your own forces can go in without suffering consequences."

http://news.msn.com/world/rockets-wi...d-syria-attack

Feuer Frei! · 08-24-13, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

The so called experts from the West finally guess as to what happened

The so-called experts know little more than we do.
Unless of course you were there and had taken blood samples and urine samples of the victims. And investigated the outfall areas. And taken samples. And analyzed those samples and confirmed that that is what happened.
So-called experts do however have more expertise in these matters than you or i.
Even from afar.
Which makes them much more qualified....and.....experts in the subject.

It seems there is movement from the US:

Quote:

The Pentagon is moving forces closer to Syria as the US weighs its options in the conflict there, Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel has suggested.
He gave no details, but media reports say the US Navy is strengthening its presence in the eastern Mediterranean.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23822440

24 August 2013 Last updated at 07:10

Oberon · 08-24-13, 06:46 AM

There are ways, I would be very surprised if there are not certain people in Syria monitoring the situation and pushing it in one way or the other. No, I do not mean Illuminati, before someone starts on that.

I would not be surprised if western governments do, in fact, have a sample of the gas used, and have perhaps leaked information through back channels to certain international agencies what has happened.
Of course, without proof, and that proof cannot be used for fear of compromising agents, then all these agencies can do is 'speculate'.

Skybird · 08-24-13, 07:12 AM

Looks to me as if the Americans are mulling some sort of air strike(s) and missile strike(s). But no ground intervention, of this I am still convinced. Which is good.

I would keep risks to Western personnel as low as possible and use missiles exclusively, no aircraft, and send the bills for their costs to the Europeans. In the end, Europe is closer to this than America, with some even wanting to share borders with this battlefield and the other one in Iraq (Turkish membership in the EU).

The claimed chemical incident is still unconfirmed to have been a chemical incident indeed. Mossad says it was, but hey, Mossad is a secret service, so caution weighs heavier than trust.

Skybird · 08-24-13, 08:19 AM

Background analysis: the rift between France and Germany.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-918211.html

Quote:

But Germany's goals differ markedly and signal a counter-revolutionary stance against French activist zeal. None of the Merkel-led coalitions to come out of September's elections are likely to judge things differently. In addition to the 50 years of the Elysée Treaty, this October also marks the 200th anniversary of the war liberating Prussia from Napoleonic occupation.

Feuer Frei! · 08-24-13, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Background analysis

Didn't think frogs could get hot heads.

Oberon · 08-24-13, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Background analysis: the rift between France and Germany.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-918211.html

To be fair, I think the Prussians kind of got their own back in the next century...twice...

(Not to mention once already in the same century during the 1870s)

Jimbuna · 08-24-13, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

If these weapons should fall into the wrong hands Israel will be the next nation with photos of children wrapped in white lien.

If that were to happen I should imagine the Israeli response would be swift and decisive.

08-23-13, 09:35 AM	#48
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,609 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It is interesting to remember that there is some inside-Syria observer group - I forgot the name but it often gets mentioned in news reports when reporting from Iraq, I just read it this morning again - with known close ties to the rebels, that this group so far still is hesitant to confirm that there has been a chemical event at all. Could be because they know it was not Assad, but their friends. Could be because they still have no final verdict. Could be the deliver the evidence right now while I'm typing. Could be that there indeed was no event. Well, an event it was, but maybe not what is claimed it was. The inspectors in Syria right now, as far as I remember form the news have permission to go to three places, all of which are low in priority and possibility to create evidence against Assad. That is what I mean when laughing about politicians demand that Assad and the rebels should allow inspections. It reminds me of one scene from the movie "V Vendetta" where the masked man asks Natalie Portman whether she doesn't find it amusing herself that she asks a masked man who he is. That question is pointless in itself, and the demands to allow inspectors in are pointless in themselves. One could as well ask on TV who the bank robber is, and tell him that he should raise his hand voluntarily and hand himself over to the police. One could also declare crime illegal, and forbid lying. Certainly would help a lot. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-23-13, 04:08 PM	#51
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	Doesn't all of this sound profoundly similar to the pre-invasion of Iraq rhetoric? The sheeple are distracted by the dancing puppet show while their pockets get picked by the real criminals. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

08-23-13, 04:43 PM	#52
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	Chemical weapons are horrendously more cruel than a bullet. Have you never seen all the pictures of horribly disfigured people, who's skin is falling off and in unbearable pain? Nerve agents, biological warfare, mustard gas, all much, much worse than getting shot. Aside from being burned alive or brutally tortured, chemical weapons easily top the horror of being shot or dying in an explosion. If you're in the kill radius, explosions are quick and easy. Chemical agents can take days to kill, and assuming you survive it, you can easily be left with permanent disfiguration and health issues. As for a response, it would be a very bad idea to put any kind of significant number of boots on the ground. Many of our "short-term" conflicts started with "well only be here a few weeks, with a few thousand men". __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

08-24-13, 07:12 AM	#56
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,609 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Looks to me as if the Americans are mulling some sort of air strike(s) and missile strike(s). But no ground intervention, of this I am still convinced. Which is good. I would keep risks to Western personnel as low as possible and use missiles exclusively, no aircraft, and send the bills for their costs to the Europeans. In the end, Europe is closer to this than America, with some even wanting to share borders with this battlefield and the other one in Iraq (Turkish membership in the EU). The claimed chemical incident is still unconfirmed to have been a chemical incident indeed. Mossad says it was, but hey, Mossad is a secret service, so caution weighs heavier than trust. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-23-13, 06:27 AM	#46
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	No there was three and there was this one who had a beer.

08-23-13, 03:44 PM	#50
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,537 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Let us presume that Assad have used chemical against his own people: Do you think it's all USA/NATO need to start bombing in Syria. They need a lot more information before they can bomb syria Markus

08-23-13, 07:59 PM	#53
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	The so called experts from the West finally guess as to what happened. "They suspect an organophosphate agent, most likely sarin gas, was involved in Wednesday's attack. However, the basic chemical agent may have been mixed with other substances acting as preservatives and perhaps also to alter or add to the effects of the gas. "Because they are non-persistent agents, they dissipate very quickly," said Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former head of Britain's military counter-nuclear, biological and chemical warfare force and now a private contractor. "In pure military terms, the idea is to drop these things on a population, kill lots of people very quickly, and then your own forces can go in without suffering consequences." http://news.msn.com/world/rockets-wi...d-syria-attack

08-24-13, 06:46 AM	#55
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	There are ways, I would be very surprised if there are not certain people in Syria monitoring the situation and pushing it in one way or the other. No, I do not mean Illuminati, before someone starts on that. I would not be surprised if western governments do, in fact, have a sample of the gas used, and have perhaps leaked information through back channels to certain international agencies what has happened. Of course, without proof, and that proof cannot be used for fear of compromising agents, then all these agencies can do is 'speculate'.