CAPT Holly Graf gets ‘honorable’ retirement

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by August

Too be honest it wasn't really a fair fight. They were both considered "frigates" but there the comparisons ended.

Guerriere
1092 tons
Crew 272
30ea 18lb guns
16ea 32lb carronades
526lb broadside

Constitution
1576 tons
Crew 450
30ea 24lb guns
20ea 32lb carronades
950lb broadside

It'd be like me picking a fight with Mike Tyson.

The early days of the US Navy was mostly comprised of sloops and carronade frigates. We couldn't afford to build those ships of the line such as the Santisima Trinidad

[August]

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

The early days of the US Navy was mostly comprised of sloops and carronade frigates. We couldn't afford to build those ships of the line such as the Santisima Trinidad

Actually we could build them, just not in the numbers necessary to go toe to toe with the Royal Navy. But having said that the Consitution and her three sister ships were a huge technological advance in Naval Warfare.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by August

Actually we could build them, just not in the numbers necessary to go toe to toe with the Royal Navy. But having said that the Consitution and her three sister ships were a huge technological advance in Naval Warfare.

Amen to that. I know we had the resources, just not the treasury correct? On a side note, I just noticed I got stuck on shore leave? What does that mean? Those algorithms must be really complex

[Oberon]

Don't forget that you guys also had the first battle between Ironclads. Made us drop production of wooden hulled ships.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't forget that you guys also had the first battle between Ironclads. Made us drop production of wooden hulled ships.

Ah an Englishman! Welcome aboard my fellow Israelite and brother My mother married a man from Liverpool and now lives there with him. He's a good man to her, better than my father ever was.

Now back to this wonderful discussion. The Royal Navy has always been feared at sea, and rightfully so. How blessed is a nation that can hold the gates of Her enemies at the far corners of the earth, and control the resources on the sea trade lanes the world over.

I just got done reading about the HMS Bounty, and the mutiny that befell Captain Bligh. What astonished me was the fact that they survived the grueling journey down to the tropical south pacific from England in the first place. Then in a small life boat loaded to the gunwales, drifted across the Coral Sea to Batavia. Most modern seafarers would complain about such a voyage, think about doing it in a square rig only traveling 4 knots!

One ship I would love to see is the HMS Victory. Such an astonishing symbol of raw naval power.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Don't forget that you guys also had the first battle between Ironclads. Made us drop production of wooden hulled ships.

Actually your own Warrior was iron-hulled and predated Virginia and Monitor (both of which were iron sheeting over wood hulls) by almost two years. The British and French used ironclad floating batteries in the seige of Sevastopol five years before that, in 1855.

And nobody stopped using wooden hulled ships entirely for another twenty years.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Actually we could build them, just not in the numbers necessary to go toe to toe with the Royal Navy. But having said that the Consitution and her three sister ships were a huge technological advance in Naval Warfare.

Two.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Two.

Originally it was four 44 gun and two 38 gun Frigates but three were never completed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origina...ed_States_Navy

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

Originally it was four 44 gun and two 38 gun Frigates but three were never completed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origina...ed_States_Navy

Which three were never completed? Constitution, Constellation and United States were the first three. President, the third 44, was certainly completed because she was the one captured by the British. Congress, the second 38, saw good service in the Barbary war and the war of 1812. Chesapeake, the "fourth 44", was the ship captured by HMS Leopard in 1807 in the "impressment" incident I wrote the 200th anniversary article on. She was also the "Don't give up the ship" ship captured in the fight with Shannon.

Further, though Chesapeake is listed as a "44" in the article, the evidence seems to be that this was on paper only. As launched she was actually smaller than the other two 38s, and there is no way she could ever have carried 44 guns. So she was never a "sister" to the three big 44s.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

Ah an Englishman! Welcome aboard my fellow Israelite and brother My mother married a man from Liverpool and now lives there with him. He's a good man to her, better than my father ever was.

Now back to this wonderful discussion. The Royal Navy has always been feared at sea, and rightfully so. How blessed is a nation that can hold the gates of Her enemies at the far corners of the earth, and control the resources on the sea trade lanes the world over.

I just got done reading about the HMS Bounty, and the mutiny that befell Captain Bligh. What astonished me was the fact that they survived the grueling journey down to the tropical south pacific from England in the first place. Then in a small life boat loaded to the gunwales, drifted across the Coral Sea to Batavia. Most modern seafarers would complain about such a voyage, think about doing it in a square rig only traveling 4 knots!

One ship I would love to see is the HMS Victory. Such an astonishing symbol of raw naval power.

Aye, they're not all bad, Liverpudlians, my Nan used to have quite a good few friends up there. Good to hear your Mum found a good bloke.
Speaking of the Royal Navy, HMS Dauntless is heading down to the Falklands. That'll go down well with Buenos Aires.

Ah, yes Steve, HMS Warrior, alas not the first Iron hulled warship, but probably one of the few surviving ones. Thank God for Phillip and the Maritime Trust.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Which three were never completed? Constitution, Constellation and United States were the first three. President, the third 44, was certainly completed because she was the one captured by the British. Congress, the second 38, saw good service in the Barbary war and the war of 1812. Chesapeake, the "fourth 44", was the ship captured by HMS Leopard in 1807 in the "impressment" incident I wrote the 200th anniversary article on. She was also the "Don't give up the ship" ship captured in the fight with Shannon.

Further, though Chesapeake is listed as a "44" in the article, the evidence seems to be that this was on paper only. As launched she was actually smaller than the other two 38s, and there is no way she could ever have carried 44 guns. So she was never a "sister" to the three big 44s.

I stand corrected. Apparently they were eventually finished.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Aye, they're not all bad, Liverpudlians, my Nan used to have quite a good few friends up there. Good to hear your Mum found a good bloke.
Speaking of the Royal Navy, HMS Dauntless is heading down to the Falklands. That'll go down well with Buenos Aires.

Yeah he's a good bloke His slang terminology always has me guessing as to what he's saying. The guy talks so fast and with such a thick Liverpool accent that often times I just stare and blink while I try to comprehend. She's happy, otherwise she would be here in the states and not there with him. When I finally make it over there, I want to visit Caernarfon castle and the Royal Welch Fusiliers museum.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Which three were never completed? Constitution, Constellation and United States were the first three. President, the third 44, was certainly completed because she was the one captured by the British. Congress, the second 38, saw good service in the Barbary war and the war of 1812. Chesapeake, the "fourth 44", was the ship captured by HMS Leopard in 1807 in the "impressment" incident I wrote the 200th anniversary article on. She was also the "Don't give up the ship" ship captured in the fight with Shannon.

"I have not yet begun to fight!" John Paul Jones, Captain, Commanding USS Bonhomme Richard in action against HMS Serapis at Flambourough Head, 23SEP1779

[soopaman2]

Comparing American fleet at the time of the USS Constitution to the grand navy of Britain is unfair.

Comparing ourselves to a nation who had a 500 year+ head start on us experience wise?

It is arrogant. Fleet to Fleet we would have been crushed. We are lucky France kept most their navy occupied through our infancy

But the Constitution made a statement. Yes, a huge one!

It was one of the early signs that we could stand up on our own as a nation. Small, but so well built, damn hard to sink, and resilient as hell! Just as our nation was at the time.

We have grown since then, and enough time has passed where I can say we have as proud and tested Naval Tradition as Britain.