In The Studio - Page 4

Sailor Steve · 11-16-11, 09:12 PM

I am so glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything when I saw that!

Sailor Steve · 11-18-11, 03:06 PM

DAY SIX

We went in yesterday (Thursday) to do the final song, plus some more drum editing. Then we reviewed the stuff I did on my first couple of days, and ended up redoing some more. And now my part is done, at least until we get to the vocals. My total playing time redoing the bass tracks was around twelve hours of seventeen spent in the studio. The rest consisted of listening while Kelly fixed the drum tracks.

Tomorrow Charles and Clay go in to do real rythm tracks. Then they'll both work on their leads. They'll keep me posted, and I'll keep you posted.

Meanwhile, I finally have a picture of Clay, working with Charles.

Jimbuna · 11-18-11, 04:28 PM

Carry on

11-18-11, 05:26 PM

Great updates Steve.

Brings back memories of the Old Days for me!

One of my close friends built a recording studio and still plays live.
I use to run sound and went to a school for it here in Ohio years ago.
http://www.recordingworkshop.com/?gc...FYXrKgodFAIHqg

So I can relate to the work involved by you Guys.

Sailor Steve · 11-18-11, 11:19 PM

Pretty cool, Jeff!

I talked to Kelly on the phone this morning, and he told me about when he started audio engineering school. He said the instructor asked him what he knew about snare drums. He said "That they're snare drums", which exactly what I would have said. Now, more than twenty-five years later, he can talk knowledgeably about all the different kinds of snare drums, how they're built, how to get the best sounds out of one type or another, which kinds have the best sounds for different styles of music, and he can listen to a song on the radio and tell if any of the instruments, including the drums, were out of tune when they were recorded.

It makes me feel like the guy who looked under the hood of a car and said "Yep, that's an engine!"

Sailor Steve · 11-20-11, 08:22 PM

DAY SEVEN

I'm sort of out of the loop now, but we're keeping each other posted as to what's going on. Charles, Clay and Kelly discussed the pros and cons of either having them go in one at a time or both together. They decided that to discuss it the three of them would meet at the studio yesterday. They started working on different sounds through Kelly's new processor. They liked some of the sounds they were getting, but for feedback they are both going to need their amplifiers, micced (see, I'm learning) up to the mixing board. Charles and Clay started bouncing ideas off one another, and Kelly decided that they would probably accomplish more together than separately, so that's the way they're going to do it.

They had some problems with one song, mainly because Clay has some ideas he hasn't worked out yet. In four hours they only got the rythm tracks done for one song, plus a fill run (one that goes while all the other instruments stop). Not much, but they're still figuring out how they want to do it.

Charles had a funny side-note, similar to one of mine. I told the story about active and passive pickups, and how my processor is giving a good active sound with passive electronics. When they were first meeting Kelly, Charles was worried about CuBase, the program Kelly prefers, compared to ProTools, "The Industry Standard". Some people feel that ProTools is the industry standard solely because they were first, and did the best advertising. True or not, Kelly asserted that any program could be ported into any other, and it was the guy twiddling the knobs that made the difference. The proof is in the pudding, which means that the final result is the only thing that counts.

So Kelly confided to me at one point that he doesn't really like EMG pickups, and he's not that fond of Scheckter guitars. So Charles is playing his Scheckter with EMGs and Kelly is listening to the playback and is absolutely praising the sounds he's hearing. The final answer is in the player; not so much that some people can make any guitar sound good, but that some instruments and some players are just suited for each other. I'm getting just the sound I want out of my bass now, and Charles gets the sound that's right for him out of the Scheckter.

I guess it's the same with anything, really. Others may not like your car, but if it's the one that fits you then nothing else matters. We are getting the sounds we want, and the engineer is picking up on that, and we think we have something special. And if not, at least it feels right to us.

So, four hours down the drain, not a lot accomplished, but we feel like we're on the right track. We'll see.

CCIP · 11-21-11, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

True or not, Kelly asserted that any program could be ported into any other, and it was the guy twiddling the knobs that made the difference. The proof is in the pudding, which means that the final result is the only thing that counts.

Yup! My dad (a professional musician all his life) also prefers Cubase and does all his recording in that. And in all fairness, industry benchmark or not, a program is not a nice box and label - it's in the features and the user. If the features do what the user wants to do, and the user knows exactly what he wants, you'll get great sounds. If not, then it's a mess. Same for guitars!

Sheckter seems to get a bad rep more than anything for the fact they've been associated with "nu-metal" bands lately (and affordable guitars they market to their fans), which a lot of the grizzled veterans in all types of rock/metal genres like to scoff at. I also somewhat scoffed at the guitars, and then while helping my friend shop for a guitar I got to try a couple. Turned out to be very good axes with a lovely tone, made a lovely bluesy sort of sound I liked. But again you're right - you gotta match the guitar with the player.

Sailor Steve · 11-21-11, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

Yup! My dad (a professional musician all his life) also prefers Cubase and does all his recording in that. And in all fairness, industry benchmark or not, a program is not a nice box and label - it's in the features and the user. If the features do what the user wants to do, and the user knows exactly what he wants, you'll get great sounds. If not, then it's a mess. Same for guitars!

Kelly told us some time ago of a professional guitarist he sometimes works with. The guy lives somewhere in the midwest. People in Los Angeles send him unfinished tracks by email. He records his parts on ProTools and then sends them to Kelly here in Salt Lake. Kelly dumps them into CuBase and mixes the guitar tracks, then sends them back to L.A. for the final mix.

Modern technology still amazes me.

Quote:

Sheckter seems to get a bad rep more than anything for the fact they've been associated with "nu-metal" bands lately (and affordable guitars they market to their fans), which a lot of the grizzled veterans in all types of rock/metal genres like to scoff at. I also somewhat scoffed at the guitars, and then while helping my friend shop for a guitar I got to try a couple. Turned out to be very good axes with a lovely tone, made a lovely bluesy sort of sound I liked. But again you're right - you gotta match the guitar with the player.

I've read a lot of guitar and bass forums lately, and that seems to be true of pretty much everything. Some love one, some hate it, and almost always it sounds just fine.

Sailor Steve · 12-01-11, 07:10 AM

DAY TEN

I didn't talk to anyone in more than a week, mainly because while I wanted to know what was going on without me I also didn't want to be pushy about it. I finally gave in and called Kelly, and then Charles. Both of them apologized for just not thinking about me. I can understand that, "Out of sight, out of mind." They brought me up to date.

Progress is slow, with Charles and Clay both working on rythm and fill parts at the same time. That said, progress is being made, and Kelly and I are getting together in a day or two so I can hear the tracks that are done. To my surprise people are complimenting my work on the songs, including a professional studio bassman Kelly sometimes works with.

I also bought a cheap fretless bass and some flatwound strings, just for one song, because I thought it would be better with a little of the "upright" sound.

Sailor Steve · 07-17-12, 08:49 PM

Well, seven months later I'm resurrecting this thread. What's gone on in the meantime was Charles and Clay working on guitar parts, then Charles starting on the lead vocals. Progress was slow because Kelly got busy and could only work a couple hours a week, always on Saturday mornings, which means that after nine months we've really only put in about three weeks actual work time. We went in and listened to the finished guitar tracks in January, and that was the last time I was in the studio until today.

Charles finally finished up the lead vocals a week ago, and Saturday morning he and Clay went back and added in their feedback parts, which had to be done separately because they weren't using normal amplifiers but a special processor and a mini-amp.

I went in today and re-tracked the bass for one song, because I thought it wanted to be played on a fretless bass for that 'upright' sound. I bought a cheap fretless a couple of months ago and have been working on that one song ever since. It took about an hour, and then I had to do a simple part for the intro and exit to the song.

Now all the instruments are done. Saturday morning we all go in to start on harmony vocals.

11-16-11, 09:12 PM	#46
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I am so glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything when I saw that! __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-18-11, 03:06 PM	#47
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	DAY SIX We went in yesterday (Thursday) to do the final song, plus some more drum editing. Then we reviewed the stuff I did on my first couple of days, and ended up redoing some more. And now my part is done, at least until we get to the vocals. My total playing time redoing the bass tracks was around twelve hours of seventeen spent in the studio. The rest consisted of listening while Kelly fixed the drum tracks. Tomorrow Charles and Clay go in to do real rythm tracks. Then they'll both work on their leads. They'll keep me posted, and I'll keep you posted. Meanwhile, I finally have a picture of Clay, working with Charles. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo Last edited by Sailor Steve; 11-18-11 at 11:13 PM.

11-18-11, 04:28 PM	#48
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,630 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Carry on __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-18-11, 11:19 PM	#50
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Pretty cool, Jeff! I talked to Kelly on the phone this morning, and he told me about when he started audio engineering school. He said the instructor asked him what he knew about snare drums. He said "That they're snare drums", which exactly what I would have said. Now, more than twenty-five years later, he can talk knowledgeably about all the different kinds of snare drums, how they're built, how to get the best sounds out of one type or another, which kinds have the best sounds for different styles of music, and he can listen to a song on the radio and tell if any of the instruments, including the drums, were out of tune when they were recorded. It makes me feel like the guy who looked under the hood of a car and said "Yep, that's an engine!" __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-20-11, 08:22 PM	#51
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	DAY SEVEN I'm sort of out of the loop now, but we're keeping each other posted as to what's going on. Charles, Clay and Kelly discussed the pros and cons of either having them go in one at a time or both together. They decided that to discuss it the three of them would meet at the studio yesterday. They started working on different sounds through Kelly's new processor. They liked some of the sounds they were getting, but for feedback they are both going to need their amplifiers, micced (see, I'm learning) up to the mixing board. Charles and Clay started bouncing ideas off one another, and Kelly decided that they would probably accomplish more together than separately, so that's the way they're going to do it. They had some problems with one song, mainly because Clay has some ideas he hasn't worked out yet. In four hours they only got the rythm tracks done for one song, plus a fill run (one that goes while all the other instruments stop). Not much, but they're still figuring out how they want to do it. Charles had a funny side-note, similar to one of mine. I told the story about active and passive pickups, and how my processor is giving a good active sound with passive electronics. When they were first meeting Kelly, Charles was worried about CuBase, the program Kelly prefers, compared to ProTools, "The Industry Standard". Some people feel that ProTools is the industry standard solely because they were first, and did the best advertising. True or not, Kelly asserted that any program could be ported into any other, and it was the guy twiddling the knobs that made the difference. The proof is in the pudding, which means that the final result is the only thing that counts. So Kelly confided to me at one point that he doesn't really like EMG pickups, and he's not that fond of Scheckter guitars. So Charles is playing his Scheckter with EMGs and Kelly is listening to the playback and is absolutely praising the sounds he's hearing. The final answer is in the player; not so much that some people can make any guitar sound good, but that some instruments and some players are just suited for each other. I'm getting just the sound I want out of my bass now, and Charles gets the sound that's right for him out of the Scheckter. I guess it's the same with anything, really. Others may not like your car, but if it's the one that fits you then nothing else matters. We are getting the sounds we want, and the engineer is picking up on that, and we think we have something special. And if not, at least it feels right to us. So, four hours down the drain, not a lot accomplished, but we feel like we're on the right track. We'll see. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-18-11, 05:26 PM	#49
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Great updates Steve. Brings back memories of the Old Days for me! One of my close friends built a recording studio and still plays live. I use to run sound and went to a school for it here in Ohio years ago. http://www.recordingworkshop.com/?gc...FYXrKgodFAIHqg So I can relate to the work involved by you Guys.

12-01-11, 07:10 AM	#54
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	DAY TEN I didn't talk to anyone in more than a week, mainly because while I wanted to know what was going on without me I also didn't want to be pushy about it. I finally gave in and called Kelly, and then Charles. Both of them apologized for just not thinking about me. I can understand that, "Out of sight, out of mind." They brought me up to date. Progress is slow, with Charles and Clay both working on rythm and fill parts at the same time. That said, progress is being made, and Kelly and I are getting together in a day or two so I can hear the tracks that are done. To my surprise people are complimenting my work on the songs, including a professional studio bassman Kelly sometimes works with. I also bought a cheap fretless bass and some flatwound strings, just for one song, because I thought it would be better with a little of the "upright" sound. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

07-17-12, 08:49 PM	#55
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Well, seven months later I'm resurrecting this thread. What's gone on in the meantime was Charles and Clay working on guitar parts, then Charles starting on the lead vocals. Progress was slow because Kelly got busy and could only work a couple hours a week, always on Saturday mornings, which means that after nine months we've really only put in about three weeks actual work time. We went in and listened to the finished guitar tracks in January, and that was the last time I was in the studio until today. Charles finally finished up the lead vocals a week ago, and Saturday morning he and Clay went back and added in their feedback parts, which had to be done separately because they weren't using normal amplifiers but a special processor and a mini-amp. I went in today and re-tracked the bass for one song, because I thought it wanted to be played on a fretless bass for that 'upright' sound. I bought a cheap fretless a couple of months ago and have been working on that one song ever since. It took about an hour, and then I had to do a simple part for the intro and exit to the song. Now all the instruments are done. Saturday morning we all go in to start on harmony vocals. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo