I'm living in a mental asylum

Originally Posted by CCIP

but redirecting them towards hatred and taking joy in violence - even against the worst of the worst - is never the solution.

Perfectly said!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CCIP
but redirecting them towards hatred and taking joy in violence - even against the worst of the worst - is never the solution.

Originally Posted by CCIP
but redirecting them towards hatred and taking joy in violence - even against the worst of the worst - is never the solution.

Perfectly said!

Really? Maybe not enjoying to kill, on this I would agree, but being relieved to have taken out a threat, a murderous mass murder planning new mass killings, without own casualties - what is wrong with that? It's like being relieved to have had an accident but nobody got hurt. Killing the likes of Bin Laden - for sure is a solution. And a very solid one. This is a war against religious fanatics whose preferred and primary weapon is terrorism and mass murder. We must not and we shall not regret their miserable endings. If we should have compassion, than for their victims - but that compassion is worthless if it does not motivate us to set up a determined fight against those wanting to create even more terror victims, in oder to prevent them from realising their wishes, and to take them out.

To make one thing clear once again, Merkel did not say nor meant nor expressed that she took delight from the fact of the killing itself. What she meant and by standards of German language expressed is that the was delighted by the fact that by taking out Bin Laden there is no more thread and danger projected by this man.

It needs the intention of wanting to misunderstand her words in order to describe her as dancing on the table when Bin Laden suffered death. Relief over an operation ending well, and a mass murderer beign taken out and no longer being a threat. Can't we even be relieved anymore over such an obvious thing without being demanded to endlessly relativise the criminal role of this murderer? A German radio station referred to the operation as the "killing of a 57 year old family father in Pakistan". And another became indigant over "that BL was surprised in his sleep". Such shamelessness leaves me speechless. I assume we should have send two police officers in proper formal dress, knocking at the door and handing over a writen note that he is to be arrested at 10:30 and that he please should pack some things and cloathings and then wait by the side of the street in front of his house to be picked up.

Es ist eine wunderbare Gelegenheit, den Amis das Wesen von Barbarei und Zivilisation zu erklären, den Unterschied von Rechtsstaat und Wildem Westen. Es den Cowboys und den Kulturbanausen da drüben heimzuzahlen für die Schmach von 45, die Entnazifizierung, die Umerziehung, für Hollywood, Mickey Mouse und Fast Food am Drive-in-Counter. Die sollen sich nicht so anstellen, die Amis, was sind schon 3000 Tote gegen die Verbrechen des Imperialismus? Oder auch nur die Verkehrstoten eines Jahres auf den Highways?

Allesversteher, die Selbstmordattentätern zugutehalten, dass sie gar nicht anders können, als sich in Zügen und Cafés in die Luft zu sprengen, ziehen plötzlich das Fünfte Gebot aus dem Kulturbeutel: Du sollst nicht töten! Eine gute Idee, die leider im asymmetrischen Krieg ein wenig gelitten hat.

If you can, read the German article I just linked above. I see you are in Germany, so most likely you speak German. Plenty of press quotes in there that illustrate how insane - or simply stupid? - people are over here.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Really? Maybe not enjoying to kill, on this I would agree, but being relieved to have taken out a threat, a murderous mass murder planning new mass killings, without own casualties - what is wrong with that? It's like being relieved to have had an accident but nobody got hurt. Killing the likes of Bin Laden - for sure is a solution. And a very solid one. This is a war against religious fanatics whose preferred and primary weapon is terrorism and mass murder. We must not and we shall not regret their miserable endings. If we should have compassion, than for their victims - but that compassion is worthless if it does not motivate us to set up a determined fight against those wanting to create even more terror victims, in oder to prevent them from realising their wishes, and to take them out.

To make one thing clear once again, Merkel did not say nor meant nor expressed that she took delight from the fact of the killing itself. What she meant and by standards of German language expressed is that the was delighted by the fact that by taking out Bin Laden there is no more thread and danger projected by this man.

It needs the intention of wanting to misunderstand her words in order to describe her as dancing on the table when Bin Laden suffered death. Relief over an operation ending well, and a mass murderer beign taken out and no longer being a threat. Can't we even be relieved anymore over such an obvious thing without being demanded to endlessly relativise the criminal role of this murderer? A German radio station referred to the operation as the "killing of a 57 year old family father in Pakistan". And another became indigant over "that BL was surprised in his sleep". Such shamelessness leaves me speechless. I assume we should have send two police officers in proper formal dress, knocking at the door and handing over a writen note that he is to be arrested at 10:30 and that he please should pack some things and cloathings and then wait by the side of the street in front of his house to be picked up.



If you can, read the German article I just linked above. I see you are in Germany, so most likely you speak German. Plenty of press quotes in there that illustrate how insane - or simply stupid? - people are over here.

Well, it looks like you´re talking to me, which is a little bit funny because I do not understand why you are explaining all this to me?
Anyways:

I never said it is wrong to kill bin Laden.
I never bashed on Merkel because of her words and as a matter of fact,
I am very happy about the JPEL (Joint Priority Effect List), to hunt all those guys down, dead or alive.

All I agreed to was, and please read it more carefully this time, that it is wrong to take JOY in killing people.
I can understand peoples emotions and temper from time to time in such a delicious case. But this must not change western values.
If it does, we´re not one bit better than the guys on, for example, the JPEL.

That is my point of view.

As a sidenote. I can understand your frustration about the direction our country is going to. But I think you are seeing everything too dark to be honest. The example with the incident in Berlins Subway station is horrible indeed and no one I know can understand this stupid Judge.
But this is just one(!) case, so don´t speak about the German apocalypse yet

[Penguin]

It seems that I am living in a different cell - or maybe I just get fed different pills...
Dear international community: I appeal to you to make your own picture of the country here, and not take Skybird's perception as an objective describtion of the German reality - neither should you see mine

The term Gutmenschen "good humans" is a parole, mostly used by the right, to bitch about blind moralistic and PC followers - a simular american term would be "bleeding-heart liberals".

One state attorney files a claim against a statement from the Chancellor: yes, this is really the thought police in action. Last time I checked state attorneys swear an oath to the constitution - damn these sneaky lefty, socialist Gutmenschen really manage to hide well, in this particular case the guy is in the office since 15 years until he got discovered. His argumentation was solely from a christian and juristic point of view.

Then we get an example about a demonstration against "inhumanity" in Landsberg in 1951, led by an (ex-?)Nazi, by people who complain against the death penalty of people who were sentenced to death for war crimes by american military courts. Hardly Gutmenschen, but people who more want to whitewash themselves from stuff they did in the war.

Now we switch to a beating in the Berlin subway from some weeks ago:
The guy who kicked the other's head in, did get released before trial. A judge decided, that there were no reasons for detention before the trial (Untersuchungshaft). Most people complained about this decision as being unfair to the victim and that the guy should have stayed locked up untill court date. I would not call this "sympathizing with perpetrators", but well...

"Many Gutmenschen complained about that he did not forgive his attacker instead and shut up, and that it is not a moral thing to accuse the attacker of attempted murder."

If it were this many, you can certainly show us some examples, where people demand that the vic should forgive his attacker. Please show the articles, letters to the editors, opinion pieces, etc. where people state this.

Some people pointed out that the judges decision was lawful, according to the law about Untersuchungshaft, as the judge saw that the reasons for detention like dangers of flight or repetition, were no given. When people wrote this in discussion boards, a ----storm usually broke out and people were told that they sympathize with the attacker - usually by people who do not understand that Untersuchungshaft is a tool of the pre-trial, not a punishment tool. Are those people maybe the cited Gutmenschen who demand the vic's apology?

Well, then we jump to a movie about the Baader-Meinhoff group, whis is covered under freedom of art at first. The producer, a multi-millionaire and capitalist, stated in a "Stern"-interview that he does not want to educate the people. People should think on their own about the movie - that's why he did neither glorify or demonize those people.
So a movie about criminals must be moralizing and judging and be in the right lines of thought? That is something that I would call "thought police"!
Btw: the last line of the movie is "Stop seeing them as something they never were.", which was also title of the interview and the cover title of the Spiegel edition which included it. Hardly a sympathizing stance.

How does this all this mix up to a "collective sin" which is deep buried into the German soul?

Sorry Sky, these statements show the contradictions of your own worldview. On the one hand you comolain that those PC, socialistr bastards want everyone to think in line, but when people state an opinion contrary to your personal views, and think out of the box of the majority's opinion, then they get attacked as Gutmenschen?
When somebody uses a law that restricts the freedom of speech, against your personal view, then this is bad? On the other hand you like to restrict freedom of speech? So are restrictions only good as long as they are not used against you or your very own views? Same as the total freedom paradoxum you cite so much, this is the restriction of freedom paradoxum...

I've already said this in the OBL death thread: the discussion if OBL's execution is justified, how he should have been captchured, or a discussion about morality about joy about a death, is a sign that we do not live in a police state where everybody follows the government's view unconditionally. It's a sign of a pluralistic society.

Can't type anymore, gotta get back into my straitjacket...

Penguin , I don't think there are many who would take his perception as objective.
His percption is more like someone whose worries about the world have tipped him over the edge into insanity.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by August

Now you know why so few people in this country pay attention to what Europeans are saying.

We are 'on par' then i assume?

[August]

Originally Posted by Fish

We are 'on par' then i assume?

As it should be. If we all spent more time minding our own business and less of that of our friends we'd all be a lot better off.