Obamacare Lawsuit to be heard in my hometown this week

[antikristuseke]

Stop talking sense in a political thread, you are missing the point of politics entirely!

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Mookie, I'll say the same thing to you that I say to anyone I hear criticizing Utah drivers: Never forget, you are one.

You are the American electorate. Some of them are, as you say, not so well informed. I actually place myself in that category. Others are very well informed indeed. But whether you are one or the other is unknowable at best. Inform yourself all you like, you have to face the possibility that you could still be wrong. And others need to face the idea that you could be right.

And it's true that the great majority don't know and don't care, but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you. As I've tried to remind others, it's how you say it that comes across.

To be fair it's not Mookie in particular, but rather a school of thought that pervades Dem party thinking.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

To be fair it's not Mookie in particular, but rather a school of thought that pervades Dem party thinking.

Group mentality also pervades the Right. But I only speak to individuals.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Group mentality also pervades the Right. But I only speak to individuals.

In short, birds of a feather flock together.

[antikristuseke]

And make easyer targets for shotguns to continue the analogy.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

And make easyer targets for shotguns to continue the analogy.

Actually I've used that comparison when discussing certain pundits: "He uses a shotgun to snipe at people."

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Group mentality also pervades the Right.

I don't deny that but the Gop does tend to refrain from belittling the people who vote them into office. Dems would be well advised to do the same.

[antikristuseke]

That does certainly fit what I ment to sya better than what I actually posted. 11 and a half hours at work tend to do that to my allready questionably useful brain.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Mookie, I'll say the same thing to you that I say to anyone I hear criticizing Utah drivers: Never forget, you are one.

You are the American electorate. Some of them are, as you say, not so well informed. I actually place myself in that category. Others are very well informed indeed. But whether you are one or the other is unknowable at best. Inform yourself all you like, you have to face the possibility that you could still be wrong. And others need to face the idea that you could be right.

And it's true that the great majority don't know and don't care, but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you. As I've tried to remind others, it's how you say it that comes across.

Steve, as always I defer to your wisdom.

However I do take issue with one thing: "but you do indeed make it sound like you know what's best for them, and they should listen only to you." In this case, I was not arguing any side of an issue, I was making a point about the state of the average American voter. My lament is that honest and informed discussion has been replaced by polemics and ideological dogmatic talking points, fed to people by the talking heads on the TV. And I do try to consider alternative points of view - I posted a link from "The American Conservative" magazine earlier today. I was clicking through some of the articles on that site and found a lot of them surprisingly well reasoned and sound - even though I disagreed, it was very well informed commentary without the hand waving proclamations of doom about sleeper cell Manchurian Candidate presidents.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

In this case, I was not arguing any side of an issue, I was making a point about the state of the average American voter. My lament is that honest and informed discussion has been replaced by polemics and ideological dogmatic talking points, fed to people by the talking heads on the TV.

I understand, and agree. It just seemed to me that August was responding to what it sounded like. Perhaps what he read was not the way you meant it, but it did sound like that to me as well.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I understand, and agree. It just seemed to me that August was responding to what it sounded like. Perhaps what he read was not the way you meant it, but it did sound like that to me as well.

Chalk it up to me not being a very good writer.

Confronted by ABC News correspondent Jake Tapper about how Obamacare has already turned into the fiscal imbroglio Democrats denied it would be, Obama froze stiffer than Nancy Pelosi’s face on a Lake Tahoe ski lift:


“No — as I said, uh, Jacob, the — I haven’t read the entire study, uh, maybe you have. But, uh, you know, if — if you — if what the reports are true, what they’re saying is that as a consequence of us getting 30 million additional people health care, at the margins that’s gonna increase our costs, we knew that. We didn’t think that we were gonna cover 30 million people… for… free.

Actually, Mr. President, that’s. Precisely. What. You. Said. While his backtracking tends to be laughably divorced from reality, Obama’s stilted speech patterns and inexplicable “I don’t write it, I just read it” dependence on the teleprompter has actually passed funny and disembarked at creepy. I can’t help but wonder if David Axelrod is standing behind the blue curtain with a remote control.

[XabbaRus]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I was and am absolutely against a single payer system.We do not want a NHS style quagmire here.

Excuse me.

Actually the NHS on the whole works. It isn't perfect but I know for a fact that I can see a doctor when I need to and it isn't going to hit my pocket or I'm going to get whacked with a massive bill at the end of treatment.

The NHS has problems sure, and the first thing I would do is sack half the managers in order to cut overheads. The frontline staff are top notch.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Excuse me.

Actually the NHS on the whole works. It isn't perfect but I know for a fact that I can see a doctor when I need to and it isn't going to hit my pocket or I'm going to get whacked with a massive bill at the end of treatment.

The NHS has problems sure, and the first thing I would do is sack half the managers in order to cut overheads. The frontline staff are top notch.

Well I've personally talked to 4 people in my life who had nothing but bad things to say about NHS.Sure the front line people like docs and nurses are great people but the system itself is awful and overloaded, sounds like a big red tape mess that will prob never be reformed.Add in the multiple reports I've read along with horror stories, i'll pass.

Our health care system is the US is not as broken as it is made out to be but some reform is needed.A way needs to be found to control premium costs but the care itself is fine. One issue is government programs like medicare or medicaid or tricare never fully reinburse a hospital for the full amount, forcing them to write off large amounts and the cost is passed on to others.My mother worked in insurance and billing at hospital for several years and told me all about it.You may have a procedure that costs 10,000 dollars and medicare may pay 2500 of it thus why many doctors have quit accepting medicare/medicaid patients.Obamacare expands these programs that will further undermine the free market system of medical insurance that majority of americans are in.

[Garion]

If it was not for the NHS both myself, my wife and my twin girls would be long dead.

For myself I am severely disabled due to wounds recieved whilst serving in The Royal Navy (many years ago now) and live in constant pain. I spend most of my time in bed (and not in the fun way) and take over 24 pills in a 24 hour period. The cost of these meds, my hospital and doctors appointments are all covered by my National Insurance payments which is used to help fund the NHS. No big aftercare bills that would mean me taking out a second mortgage, which is nice

18 months ago my wife suffered a brain aneurysm, whilst swimming with a friend in the local swimming pool. The Ambulance took her hospital, she was assessed and treated to make her comfortable and she recieved her coiling operation the next day. Since then she has had further visits to specialists and I am happy to say that she is well on the mend and is able to driver her wee car again. She will continue to recieve checkups every year for the rest of her life.

My twin girls were born 3 months premature, we were told that they would not survive. They spent months in neo-natal intensive care and afterwords when they were allowed home we had follow up visits for years after. They are now 17 and both girls are preparing to go to university

Now I agree the NHS is not perfect, but I cannot praise highly enough the doctors, nurses and the care my family have recieved over the years.

Sure there are the few cases where things go wrong, but the service is used by millions of people on a daily 24/7 basis and although I can't speak for them I feel the NHS gets a lot more right than it does wrong.

Of course there is also private healthcare available in the UK so for those that can afford it they have the option.

This post is just to explain my familys experiences with the NHS and why we treasure it.

As for Obamacare and the US, I cannot contribute anything to that as I have no experience of it.

Cheers

Garion

Cheers

Garion