Iron Coffins

[LukeFF]

In regards to Iron Coffins, apparently it's not all it's cracked up to be:

I have had the honor of corresponding with and talking with many u-boat veterans...some that are famous and others that are not. I was driven to at first to gain autographs from these men from history. I wanted to be able to ask hard questions and get a deeper understanding of the war from their point of view and to connect with those that I had only read about. To get a human side of a big part of the war. I am very grateful for their friendship and assistance. They opened my eyes to things I would never have understood otherwise.

To a man, they are all very glad that their Fatherland, Germany, lost the war. They speak fondly of their days in the service as most veterans do. The less famous u-boat veterans also feel honored to be remembered by someone such as myself who took the time and effort to locate their address and drop them a letter inquiring about their experiences. Those that are famous received literally hundreds of letters a weeks from folks.

I must say that these veterans don't think highly of Herbert Werner or Lothar-Günther Buchheim. Werner wrote his book in the late 1960s and was received with critical success. It became a bestseller world-wide for the frankness and anti-Nazi sentiments. Btw, the 1960s were the beginnings of apologist histories regarding the Nazi state. It is a fascinating memoir to read...and I use the word "memoir" loosely. The esteemed naval historian Dr. Jürgen Rohwer studied the memoir and compared its claims to facts. Many of the instances Werner claims were personal experiences were actually borrowed from other people. Rohwer stated that if the factual errors were highlighted in red the book would "read as a bloodbath."

The success of Werner's Iron Coffins was not lost on Buchheim. Buchheim realized that the world might be ready for a novel of his 'experiences' on a u-boat...provided he add in the required anti-Nazi spin. It is a fine book and I have read it many times, but I am aware of the time and reason for its creation. Money. Nothing more...nothing less. Reinhard Hardegen has spoken bluntly about his dislike of Buchheim. In a nutshell, he states that Buchheim 'has only one god and it is money.' Hardegen also took strong objections to the wild party at the brothel before a patrol, the crew pissing on their captain, and the gun-incident where the captain has to keep his chief maschinist in check. None of these ever happened. Hardegen states that if a captain had to produce a pistol, then the situation was far beyond getting control. The respect towards Der Alte was too great for these things to happen.

Erich Topp said that I should look at Das Boot as factual with the boredom depicted...and then the excitement of action. But forget the rest. Karl-Friedrich Merten had a long standing feud with Buchheim towards his defining opus. The u-bootfarhrer organizations disowned both Werner and Buchheim. (Trust me, Werner is a cocky s.o.b. considering he didn't do anything as a skipper except survive.)

For more detailed study of the German u-boat in popular culture, read Michael Hadley's Count Not the Dead.

Posted on another forum I read regularly.

[AVGWarhawk]

Now if you would like a "real" read,try Operation Drumbeat by Michael Gannon.
All true and no fact stretching...unlike Iron Coffins

.

Excellent book and enjoyed so much I read it twice! I highly recommend Operation Drumbeat!

(Trust me, Werner is a cocky s.o.b. considering he didn't do anything as a skipper except survive.)

Oh, harsh...........

[nikbear]

(Trust me, Werner is a cocky s.o.b. considering he didn't do anything as a skipper except survive.)

Considering this comes from other's who did the same"Kettle! Meet Mr pot"Its quite sad when it comes to this,Selective memory when it suits them the lot of them

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by nikbear

Selective memory when it suits them the lot of them

That statement is true and should be applied to everyone who gives their version of an event uniformly.

[kaptkirkU4467]

One of my books on the U Boats and the Battle of the Atlantic is a very rare find..."The Golden Horseshoe." Otto Kretschmer's autobiography.
Now theres a page turner!
The book was published in 1955 so all the key players were still alive:Otto and his crew plus the the men on the other side like Captain Macintyre and even the P.O.W camp commander.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by kaptkirkU4467

One of my books on the U Boats and the Battle of the Atlantic is a very rare find..."The Golden Horseshoe." Otto Kretschmer's autobiography.
Now theres a page turner!
The book was published in 1955 so all the key players were still alive:Otto and his crew plus the the men on the other side like Captain Macintyre and even the P.O.W camp commander.

I totally agree......one of my favourites

[AVGWarhawk]

Might want to broaden your horizons also kaptkirk. Jim would appreciate this, I started 'One of Our Submarines.' Edward Young. Concerns the British submarine service during WW2. I just got it and I'm half way through the book. Great reading on the British submarine service.

[GoldenRivet]

No shortage of opinions on Iron Coffins.

I do believe it to be a compulsory read and at least a part of any U-Boat book collection.

It doesnt have to be the collection's center piece... but i would feel any collection would be incomplete without it.

On a personal note... I find the "all Werner did was survive" comment to be annoying, disrespectful and in poor taste.

surviving the U-boat war is no small accomplishment in itself.

i'll remind you that Werner himself peered through a number of UZO oculars while orchestrating surfaced night attacks while serving as executive officer aboard other boats.

not that it matters.

to me - even if a soldier only shuffled papers during the war - he is still an honored veteran.

[Kapt Z]

[quote=GoldenRivet;1079975]

On a personal note... I find the "all Werner did was survive" comment to be annoying, disrespectful and in poor taste.

surviving the U-boat war is no small accomplishment in itself.[quote]

Well said.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by nikbear

(Trust me, Werner is a cocky s.o.b. considering he didn't do anything as a skipper except survive.)

Considering this comes from other's who did the same"Kettle! Meet Mr pot"Its quite sad when it comes to this,Selective memory when it suits them the lot of them

Actually that statement stacks up nicely against the British intelligence report that said that the written materials found in the crew's quarters of the U-570 had "no redeeming value whatever." Overarching critical generalizations, including "Kettle! Meet Mr pot" are popping up everywhere! Even when surrounded by facts, these are good for little more than entertainment and sure aren't worth getting upset about. Everyone, including myself right here and now, enjoys employing these sometimes.

The previous was an overarching critical generalization and may offend the reader. It certainly offends the author. Tough toenails. You have to admire an overarching critical generalization claiming that everyone, including the author, makes overarching critical generalizations.

[kaptkirkU4467]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Might want to broaden your horizons also kaptkirk. Jim would appreciate this, I started 'One of Our Submarines.' Edward Young. Concerns the British submarine service during WW2. I just got it and I'm half way through the book. Great reading on the British submarine service.

I have 3 bookcases full of military history ...The wife would kill me if I get on e-bay again.
Any thing from Roman times to the tank battles in Iraq.
*Picked this up last year,"60 Jahre,Deutsche UBoote. 1906 to 1966"...its in German and is a great read...very slow as my German is rusty.*

But anyway..from the other side of the coin:
Hunter/Killer by William T.Youngblood
a true story here:The Terrible Hours.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by kaptkirkU4467

I have 3 bookcases full of military history ...The wife would kill me if I get on e-bay again.
Any thing from Roman times to the tank battles in Iraq.
*Picked this up last year,"60 Jahre,Deutsche UBoote. 1906 to 1966"...its in German and is a great read...very slow as my German is rusty.*

But anyway..from the other side of the coin:
Hunter/Killer by William T.Youngblood
a true story here:The Terrible Hours.

Well, if she will kill you for going ebay for books, use Amazon instead. So many books and so little time.

[kaptkirkU4467]

She started it...and found the really rare stuff..I just cant stop lookin for stuff.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Might want to broaden your horizons also kaptkirk. Jim would appreciate this, I started 'One of Our Submarines.' Edward Young. Concerns the British submarine service during WW2. I just got it and I'm half way through the book. Great reading on the British submarine service.

Never read it...but at these prices, I soon will.

Look at the price spread

http://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Submarin.../dp/1844151069

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i'll remind you that Werner himself peered through a number of UZO oculars while orchestrating surfaced night attacks while serving as executive officer aboard other boats.

Maybe in training, but not in combat.