[release] IJN periscope v 1.0

[peabody]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

I can't see why it would be assumed to be faked.

We didn't automatically assume it to be 'faked', but there are several clues in the file which indicate the camera was not shooting through the scope but the "mask" was added later when the file was copied. It is possible the scope looked like that but I don't feel from the "evidence" that this is actual footage taken through the scope.
I took the scope section and clipped it, stretched it to put it in slow motion and using some info from almost 40 years of photograph experience, there are too many things that don't add up.

Peabody

[keltos01]

i thought of something more like this :




but with black reticle

keltos

[peabody]

Ok, color me stupid but you lost me on this one. How can both of the red lines be 10 degrees?

Second: What are the 10s around the outside of the view? Pointed with the yellow.




Peabody

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by peabody

Ok, color me stupid but you lost me on this one. How can both of the red lines be 10 degrees?

Second: What are the 10s around the outside of the view? Pointed with the yellow.




Peabody

those would be left over from the german reticle I think, but don't know why ?

anyhow which reticle do you like best ?

keltos

[keltos01]

help from Ed Low at J-aircraft forum :

http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=7184.15

keltos

[peabody]

Originally Posted by keltos01

those would be left over from the german reticle I think, but don't know why ?

anyhow which reticle do you like best ?

keltos

The other one I can't even read.

You say it was 'left over from the german" what was the red or yellow? I asked two questions, I don't know which one you answered.
Another question on this, where did the X15 come from? As it sits now I don't get it. So I can't really give you an answer, because it doesn't make sense to me.

Peabody

[Hitman]

there are several clues in the file which indicate the camera was not shooting through the scope but the "mask" was added later when the file was copied. It is possible the scope looked like that but I don't feel from the "evidence" that this is actual footage taken through the scope.

I'm inclined to concur on that, the more so after browsing through the Fischer Tropp web files, were it states that the pictures taken with cameras through scopes was a primitive technique for the japanese, not giving good results. It looks as it would be a fake scope, although inspired in the real one. The exact same size for vertical and horizontal scope also doesn't match well with the distribution in the real scope I commented above (radians vs. degrees).

Ok, color me stupid but you lost me on this one. How can both of the red lines be 10 degrees?

Second: What are the 10s around the outside of the view? Pointed with the yellow.

Very easy: The modified cameras.dat reduces the Field of view to 30º, thus kicking the old reticle out of the visible area. But the "10" marks are scripted in the menu.ini file and must be manually edited (Something I leave for a perfected final version). They stay were the 10 degree mark was before opening the field of view, which is no longer there

anyhow which reticle do you like best ?

The reticle you posted is of course apparently more exact looking, yet as I explained before it will not work as intended. If you are planning to eliminate the double prism stadimeter in the periscope (And IJN subs apparently had none) you need an exact reticle for manual targeting, so I prefer mine.

[Hitman]

Oh I forgot: Both red lines are actually 10 degrees, BUT one is linear and the other is curved. In the scope field of view it is linear, in the bearing indicator it is curved due to being adapted to a full 360º circumference.

You can do an easy check: place the central vertical line on any fixed object (a tree). Take menthal note of where the linear 10 degree mark is now (Pick another tree as reference). Now move the scope to put on that second tree the central line: ou will see that the scope effectively rotated those 10 degrees

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Oh I forgot: Both red lines are actually 10 degrees, BUT one is linear and the other is curved. In the scope field of view it is linear, in the bearing indicator it is curved due to being adapted to a full 360º circumference.

You can do an easy check: place the central vertical line on any fixed object (a tree). Take menthal note of where the linear 10 degree mark is now (Pick another tree as reference). Now move the scope to put on that second tree the central line: ou will see that the scope effectively rotated those 10 degrees

can't we find a way for this to work with the larger view (30°) ?

keltos

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by keltos01

I don't see a vertical line when I zoom (and I can go pretty far in Raster Design...)

keltos

it's very faint, but it's most clear at the top of periscope view. It's most apparent at lower zoom. At higher zoom it gets lost in the noise. But maybe it's not really there.

joe

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by peabody

We didn't automatically assume it to be 'faked', but there are several clues in the file which indicate the camera was not shooting through the scope but the "mask" was added later when the file was copied. It is possible the scope looked like that but I don't feel from the "evidence" that this is actual footage taken through the scope.
I took the scope section and clipped it, stretched it to put it in slow motion and using some info from almost 40 years of photograph experience, there are too many things that don't add up.

Peabody

thanks Peabody

i had already reversed my opinion, and was in agreement with your assessment. I salute your perspicacity!

[keltos01]

Ed Low's reticle :


By keltos01


By keltos01

in the backgroung you can see the Kaiten type 10 prototype and its periscope


By keltos01
I have received a reticle made by Ed Low at J-Aircraft forum, he sent it to me in .AI, .pdf, .jpg formats.

It's just missing the vertical line and the ° next to the numbers.


There must be a way to use this reticle without changing the camera view.

I noticed when I first worked on the periscope that there was a data\menu\gui\SH3periscope.dds there, so maybe it is used by the german side of the uboot add-on too ?


keltos

[keltos01]

new pictures from Major Walter Schmidt from his trip to the Kure museum :


By keltos01


Keltos

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152805#post152805
Posted by: Major Walter Schmidt


thread at Jaircraft.com :
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index....52095#msg52095

thread at WWIIincolor :
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7077

[keltos01]

After Illustrator :




By keltos01



I remade the reticle using Autocad, because there I can specify distances and measure precisely, unlike Illustrator.

the distances I used were :

100 from center to the 25 mark on the vertical scale.

-> divided by 25 = 4 units per graduation for the vertical scale.

35 units per 5° on the horizontal scale

-> divided by 5 = 7 units per graduation on the horizontal scale.

As the upper and lower scales were aligned with the center, but each on one side of a line that would go through the center, I represented it to the left of that line for the lower scale, and to the right for the upper scale.

The two circles visible on the photograph were placed too :

the first one at the 18.71 mark on the vertical scale

the second at the 25 mark on the vertical scale

I didn't draw neither a horizontal nor a vertical line passing through the center as I believe none are on the reticle.

now I will import it back into illustrator to set the lines' thicknesses, then back into photoshop to edit the mask.

I set the reticle's marks thickness to 0.75, 0.5 for the first and most visible circle and 0.25 for the wider and less visible one. The exterior circle materializing the view's edge is set to 0.75.


Keltos



IJN Kaiten type 10 periscope reticle in Adobe Illustrator 10 format :

http://files.filefront.com/IJN+Kaiten+periscope+v11trar/;13442418;/fileinfo.html

[Hitman]

I have checked Ed Low's reticle and the proportions seem right (10 in the vertical scale is approx 5.75 in the horizontal one). The problem to implement this in SH4 is that the hardcoded german reticle shows at 30º, hence doing a FOV larger than 30º will make the reticle show in screen.