Attacks in Iraq at lowest level since 2003 - Page 4

Onkel Neal · 12-04-08, 10:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Skybird

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Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

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Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

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Originally Posted by Skybird

Not to mention the many thousands of Shia people that got massacred after America betrayed them by first encouraging them to rebel after the war 1991, and then letting them down and just watching how theiy got massacred.
Maybe you want to be not so eager to remember of such things, then. The interests of the Iraqi people played no role back then, and they do not play a role now. It is pure national self-interest dictating US action in Iraq. And in 2003, that self-interest was extremely incompetently defined. If america would see a way to disembark from Iraq without losing its face right now, no doubt it would be done before bush leaves office, to try to repair his broken historic reputation.

....The entire point of my previous post was to point out that our anti-war liberals, who supposedly care about people, are not only making our troops' jobs more dangerous, but are turning a blind eye to genocide....
What I object to is the liberals' use of the war as a means to further their political agenda, in direct conflict with beliefs they supposedly hold dear.

I agree. You will never find an anti-war liberal who will admit this, because that requires honesty.

Skybird, there is a lot of "bad wishing" involved in your position. At every turn, you post topics that reinforce the view that the war will fail to achieve its objectives: find WMDs (or insure there are none), overthrow a dictator, establish an Islamic democracy in the heart of the ME. You post topics that reinforce the position that the war is failing, America will fail, America is corrupt, America is wrong. There were a lot of people like you, in the US and outside, who were adamantly predicting the Gulf War would fail to achieve its objectives, and you were not shy about "predicting" this. You never post anything positive, that's why I stand by my claim you do a lot of bad wishing. That's your bias.

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Originally Posted by Skybird

Not to mention the many thousands of Shia people that got massacred after America betrayed them by first encouraging them to rebel after the war 1991, and then letting them down and just watching how theiy got massacred.

Let's see, that first Gulf War was fought against the wishes of the anti-war faction, it was "all about oil", and the whole scope of the war was constricted by the screaming and protesting of the anti-war faction. Bush Sr. pulled back and halted operations quickly, partially because he did not want to be criticized as a warmonger by the anti-war faction, and because we were constantly being reminded by our friends and allies that the UN mandate did not allow the US to toppled Saddam--or support a movement by the Shias to overthrow Saddam. And you want to remind us that America betrayed them? Ha, that's like accusing me of not defending you against muggers while you were holding my arms behind my back.

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Originally Posted by Skybird

It needs no defeatists to see that the state of disorder still is way beyond that before the attack, and that distribution of electricity and water still is very bad, and that the rate of major crime still is at so high levels that there is no way to speak of a safe live in Bagdhad and many other places, not to mention he industry that has evolved around hijacking.

Also, Neal is completely ignoring the future prospects of Iraq, and after a phase of keeping a somewhat lower profile, Al Sadr is on the way to grow in influence again, this time more based on civilian-political bases and even more civil popularity, not so much on basis if his militias like before, while Iran now just waits and sits it out until the troops are gone in 2011, and then will have heydays in the Shia dominated areas again, and especially in the south.

I do not deny for a second that my posts and positions involve a lot of wishful thinking, too ("good wishing"?:hmm: or naive thinking? :hmm: ). I think the US will help Iraq grow its democracy and bring their standard of living up, and that's my wish as well. I may be wrong, but that's what I believe. I won't argue that there are a lot of problems in Iraq now. And I am not ignoring the future prospects of Iraq, I just did not address that in my post about attacks being at an all time low. Instead of countering the post with bad wishing about Iraq's future, I'm surprised you did not say, "Wow, that's great, there's some hope for this venture". (No, wait, I'm not really surprised

).

I plainly admit my bias, no problem there. Like you, I could not hide my bias if I tried.

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Quatsch und Geschwätz, from A to Z .

Well, that makes a lot of sense. Good thing I don't speak German.