More religious violence: India

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

No offense ether, but if you knew your history, you would know it was the Muslims that started this. There were 5 crusades to rescue the lands that were taken, but this is a long story and outside the scope of this thread.

What do they teach in schools these days anyway? Not much i see. Maybe the Muslims have found a way to keep this out or twist it somehow?

-S

Actually, no. The First Crusade which sparked the others was caused by the Christians. They decided that they couldn't allow the blasphemy of Muslims to reach the ears of their people. Imams traveled the Europeans lands (came close to their borders, anyway), and preached the Quran. Intolerance is all it was.

Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade in 1095.

Pope Eugene III launched the Second Crusade in 1147.

The European Kings came together and launched the Third Crusade in 1189.

Pope (The-Not-So) Innocent III launched the Fourth Crusade in 1202.

Pope (Un) Honorius III launched the Fifth Crusade.

The Holy Roman Empire launched the Sixth Crusade.

France led the Seventh Crusade.

France led the Eighth Crusade.

England and France led the Ninth and final Crusade.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I'm sorry - it is very difficult to find any documentation that Hitler was religious, so maybe you can? Might be a hard task for you however. Try it though. There was also a good program that addressed this to a degree on Discovery (not the one I mention above) that talked how he wasn't to some degree when talking about his personal life - It was based on who had his remains which the show determined the KGB had them but it was left open at the end.

The program I mentioned above that I saw was about the relics and propaganda Hitler was collecting to show the Christians that Germany was destined to rule the world, and how the Allies used the same tactic though to a much lesser degree. A lot of it was around the subs being used to ferry the relics back to Germany. Its been a few years however so I cannot name it. I wish i could though. That was one worth watching.

-S

Oh, don't ask me to find the program. You're the one who made the claim. It's a logical fallacy to pull that "You do it for me" junk.

I watched the program on Hitler's remains, and it said nothing about him being Christian. That was the same one that showed a fragment of his skull and told about the KGB burying his remains in a small box somewhere in Siberia.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Oh, don't ask me to find the program. You're the one who made the claim. It's a logical fallacy to pull that "You do it for me" junk.

I watched the program on Hitler's remains, and it said nothing about him being Christian. That was the same one that showed a fragment of his skull and told about the KGB burying his remains in a small box somewhere in Siberia.

Point proven - He was not, nor at his death, religious.

Last, someone else claimed here first that he was not an Atheist, yet you pin it on me? So for our conversation, you are the one making the claim. And for all people who have never said they were one way or the other, Atheists must make the burden of proof since I have never seen Hitler in a church unless he just destroyed it! :p

You are the one that made the claim that he was religious too. By the way, what Christian could kill millions of Jews? Explain that one Einstein! Are we seriously having this conversation? I feel like the only one with a brain here and rightfully so.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Actually, no. The First Crusade which sparked the others was caused by the Christians. They decided that they couldn't allow the blasphemy of Muslims to reach the ears of their people. Imams traveled the Europeans lands (came close to their borders, anyway), and preached the Quran. Intolerance is all it was.

Pope Urban II launched the First Crusade in 1095.

Pope Eugene III launched the Second Crusade in 1147.

The European Kings came together and launched the Third Crusade in 1189.

Pope (The-Not-So) Innocent III launched the Fourth Crusade in 1202.

Pope (Un) Honorius III launched the Fifth Crusade.

The Holy Roman Empire launched the Sixth Crusade.

France led the Seventh Crusade.

France led the Eighth Crusade.

England and France led the Ninth and final Crusade.

5 Major ones. The last were minor.

And no - you are wrong. The Muslims invaded what is now Spain, and they took over the holy lands as well.

-S

PS. Some history for you (since I obviously have to hold you hand):

The Crusades were a series of military campaigns during the time of Medieval England against the Muslims of the Middle East. In 1076, the Muslims had captured Jerusalem - the most holy of holy places for Christians. Jesus had been born in nearby Bethlehem and Jesus had spent most of his life in Jerusalem. He was crucified on Calvary Hill, also in Jerusalem. There was no more important place on Earth than Jerusalem for a true Christian which is why Christians called Jerusalem the "City of God".

However, Jerusalem was also extremely important for the Muslims as Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim faith, had been there and there was great joy in the Muslim world when Jerusalem was captured. A beautiful dome - called the Dome of the Rock - was built on the rock where Muhammad was said to have sat and prayed and it was so holy that no Muslim was allowed to tread on the rock or touch it when visiting the Dome.

Therefore the Christian fought to get Jerusalem back while the Muslims fought to keep Jerusalem. These wars were to last nearly 200 years

[Safe-Keeper]

Religion. Let's leave it to that.

While I have fantastic friends who are religious and acknowledge that religion is a perfectly good tool for dealing with stressors, grief, etc... I also acknowledge that it is just as good a weapon when it comes to driving human beings to terrorism, war and genocide. Jesus Camp is a terrifying view of how organized religion can, quite litterally, destroy little childrens' worldviews. The damage done by the camp members and parents will be very hard for the kids to overcome.

I fully agree with Skybird's statement that to the degree this is possible, children should be kept away from religion, just as they are shielded from politics. I realize that this will be hard if you attend church every Sunday and pray several times a day, but... do your best. For the same reason you wouldn't convince your kids from early age that your political views are the only correct ones.

Your religion by the way leads to greater violence - wars.

'Atheist' is an incredibly wide collective term for people who lack a religion, much like 'skeptic' is a collective term for people who disbelieve in homeopathy, Bigfoot, aliens, ghosts, etc. It's ludicrous to try to lump all atheists together as atheism isn't an organized religion more than skepticism is. An organized religion has tenets, leaders, etc. Sure, atheists can be united like any other group, but atheism in itself isn't a religion more than baldness is a hair colour.

I also love people who try to pull political and scientific views they don't like down to the level of religion. I hate to disappoint you, but environmentalism, "land grab" (whatever that is - I assume you mean socialism) and the Theory of Evolution... are not religions unless you redefine the word.

Atheists usually degrade into religions of self satisfaction.

I assume you don't want to be loved by God, then, or enter Heaven?

Oh, and stow the "atheists usually" drivel. Your bigotry against atheists is quite clear. You may as well say that Afro-Americans this, or that left-handed people that. It'd be about as strongly generalizing, and make as little sense.

A much more dangerous religion than any in the world.

I'll take Christianity any day! Much much safer.

WW2. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini all atheists...

Skeptics are even worse. Mao, the Red Khmer, the British empire, the Conquistadors. Neither of them believed in dragons and elves.

I'll take superstition any day. Much safer!

(Just in case you didn't get my point - it's not enough to say that x possessed trait y, which I dislike, hence trait y was what made him do what he did. You have to give actual evidence that it was their alleged lack of an an organized religion that caused the atrocities they commited. So far, everyone challenged to present such evidence has failed utterly).

The Inquisition, the massacre of the Aztecs, the brutality of the British empire, World War II... all caused by white people. Hence, white people are the most dangerous in the world and should be kept out of government, the boy scouts, schools, etc.
Same ****ing logic.

Or... oh! How about this? The Holocaust was carried out by Germans, hence, we should, for the sake of our nation's morals, disallow Germans and their descendants from holding public office or joining the boy scouts. The moment we allow Germany into our schools, the nation will go down the drain!

Man, even the Atheist Discovery channel mentioned this!

There's an Atheist Discovery Channel? Is it related to the Hindu Sesame Street on FOX or the Buddhist Weather Report on CNN? Or do you mean 'secular', which is another broad term which means 'not concerning itself with religion' and applies to everything that doesn't put a religious sticker on it, from Kmart to the Astros to Nokia to Where's Wally?

PS: On the OP, Christians, too, have done horrific things in India. Look up 'Christian terrorism' on the Wiki and you'll be taken to more info.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

While I have fantastic friends who are religious and acknowledge that religion is a perfectly good tool for dealing with stressors, grief, etc... I also acknowledge that it is just as good a weapon when it comes to driving human beings to terrorism, war and genocide. Jesus Camp is a terrifying view of how organized religion can, quite litterally, destroy little childrens' worldviews. The damage done by the camp members and parents will be very hard for the kids to overcome.

'Atheist' is an incredibly wide collective term for people who lack a religion, much like 'skeptic' is a collective term for people who disbelieve in homeopathy, Bigfoot, aliens, ghosts, etc. It's ludicrous to try to lump all atheists together as atheism isn't an organized religion more than skepticism is. An organized religion has tenets, leaders, etc. Sure, atheists can be united like any other group, but atheism in itself isn't a religion more than baldness is a hair colour.

I also love people who try to pull political and scientific views they don't like down to the level of religion. I hate to disappoint you, but environmentalism, "land grab" (whatever that is - I assume you mean socialism) and the Theory of Evolution... are not religions unless you redefine the word.

I assume you don't want to be loved by God, then, or enter Heaven?

Oh, and stow the "atheists usually" drivel. Your bigotry against atheists is quite clear. You may as well say that Afro-Americans this, or that left-handed people that. It'd be about as strongly generalizing, and make as little sense.

Skeptics are even worse. Mao, the Red Khmer, the British empire, the Conquistadors. Neither of them believed in dragons and elves.

I'll take superstition any day. Much safer!

(Just in case you didn't get my point - it's not enough to say that x possessed trait y, which I dislike, hence trait y was what made him do what he did. You have to give actual evidence that it was their alleged lack of an an organized religion that caused the atrocities they commited. So far, everyone challenged to present such evidence has failed utterly).

The Inquisition, the massacre of the Aztecs, the brutality of the British empire, World War II... all caused by white people. Hence, white people are the most dangerous in the world and should be kept out of government, the boy scouts, schools, etc.
Same ****ing logic.

Or... oh! How about this? The Holocaust was carried out by Germans, hence, we should, for the sake of our nation's morals, disallow Germans and their descendants from holding public office or joining the boy scouts. The moment we allow Germany into our schools, the nation will go down the drain!

There's an Atheist Discovery Channel? Is it related to the Hindu Sesame Street on FOX or the Buddhist Weather Report on CNN? Or do you mean 'secular', which is another broad term which means 'not concerning itself with religion' and applies to everything that doesn't put a religious sticker on it, from Kmart to the Astros to Nokia to Where's Wally?

PS: On the OP, Christians, too, have done horrific things in India. Look up 'Christian terrorism' on the Wiki and you'll be taken to more info.

Yawn.

An opinion piece. How about throwing some fact next time?

-S

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Point proven - He was not, nor at his death, religious.

Last, someone else claimed here first that he was not an Atheist, yet you pin it on me? So for our conversation, you are the one making the claim. And for all people who have never said they were one way or the other, Atheists must make the burden of proof since I have never seen Hitler in a church unless he just destroyed it! :p

You are the one that made the claim that he was religious too. By the way, what Christian could kill millions of Jews? Explain that one Einstein! Are we seriously having this conversation? I feel like the only one with a brain here and rightfully so.

-S

here you go subman. I'm ever willing to help the only brain on sumsim to expand its knowledge

[Safe-Keeper]

Point proven - He was not, nor at his death, religious.

You believe that the KGB stole Hitler's body and buried it in Siberia:rotfl:?!

Yawn.

An opinion piece. What about throwing out some facts next time?

Your capitulation and lack of counter-arguments is duly noted. Thank you. Kindly leave your weapons behind and abandon your fortifications. We will begin our de-Submanification program in your country shortly.

Your surrender has saved our forces tedious fighting against tedious and ultimately futile counter-arguments, for which we are incredibly grateful. Have a good day.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

here you go subman. I'm ever willing to help the only brain on sumsim to expand its knowledge

There ya go man. The one and only time Hitler tried to sway these people to his side.

So you are honestly sitting there and telling me that Hitler murdering 10 Million Jews went to church every week and practiced a faith? Get real! This is part of his relic crusade, which he used to get Christians on his side!

Are you serious? You actually believe this? Some people are more stupid than they look.

-S

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

There ya go man. The one and only time Hitler tried to sway these people to his side.

So you are honestly sitting there and telling me that Hitler murdering 10 Million Jews went to church every week and practiced a faith? Get real! This is part of his relic crusade, which he used to get Christians on his side! Are you serious? You actually believe this?

-S

no you are fabricating as usual.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

no you are fabricating as usual.

I beg to differ man. You claim he was religious simply because he entered a church and talked to some bishop! Hahahahahaha! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Naive would be a good word here.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Alright. Who's next to deliver me a picture of Stalin who entered some church and who claims Stalin was religious? This is getting funny!

Anyone whacked must be religious! Atheists bible I'm sure - its in there.

-S

[fatty]

This thread has successfully gone from depressing to hilarious in only three pages.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by fatty

This thread has successfully gone from depressing to hilarious in only three pages.

Pretty much. Hitler in a church. Hahahaha! He must be religious!

-S

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Point proven - He was not, nor at his death, religious.

Last, someone else claimed here first that he was not an Atheist, yet you pin it on me? So for our conversation, you are the one making the claim. And for all people who have never said they were one way or the other, Atheists must make the burden of proof since I have never seen Hitler in a church unless he just destroyed it! :p

You are the one that made the claim that he was religious too. By the way, what Christian could kill millions of Jews? Explain that one Einstein! Are we seriously having this conversation? I feel like the only one with a brain here and rightfully so.

-S

How does that prove your point? It doesn't, because it wasn't an autobiography about Hitler. It was about his remains and what happened to them.

And no, he was religious. Look at the pictures. Look at the speeches where he mentions god. The man was baptised, FFS.