Naked guy gets tasered and falls down to his death

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by 1480

Not sure about NYPD, but we don't have "experts" to handle the situation, we are it. I'm not sure what you mean about 'physically calm down'.

If the guy was using the four foot long glass tube to strike at the officers as it is reported, they would have been more then likely justified in using their firearms to negate the threat. As I stated before, it was a no-win situation.

So the officer was trapped. Could not retreat and thus it was warranted to kill? Tell me this Mr Public servant would you have pulled your sidearm and fired? If so please inform your department of your posts here because I think they need to know your mental state in my opinion.

I could not stop laughing at your efforts to make the contents of tube lights look to be like some kind of super danger when in the case a broken bulb it is recommended to leave and move outside or well vented area. And simply sweep up the remains afterwords.

OMG broken CFL!!! RUN ***** RUN!!!

Edit: Why did I post. Had you done it you would also be charged with manslaughter so whatever just point this topic to your department please.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Reece

I really feel sorry for this poor guys mother who was clearly distressed asking the police not to hurt her son ... so they kill him, they must have known through training that his muscles would tense up & altimately fall. Ignorant turds! Hope mom sues for all it's worth, won't get her son back but maybe they'll review the future use and training of tazers.

This is not a case of a lawsuit. This is a crime (Manslaughter)

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by 1480

Is your real name Annie Oakley? :rotfl:

Shooting to maim is a myth. If I were to discharge my duty weapon, it's to protect my life, another officer's life or civillian's life. Don't know how it is in other countries, but case law has established in the US that using a firearm by police, constitutes deadly force. Besides, do you realize how hard it is to hit center mass from 5 feet away. I do, 90% of police involved shootings happen from 5 feet or less, and the hit percentage is a whopping 30%. (to center mass, the largest presented target)

If it is a myth, why does most situations in Finland end with one shot on the shoulder or leg? Like when a guy went on a rampage from an army garrison with an assault rifle, crossbow, flare gun and a trained German Shepherd. He had killed three but one shot to the shoulder ended the chase. No one would have said anything if they had shot him dead. This guy had a light tube. I have to say that i know a lot of Finnish police officers and im first to defend their right to use deadly force if warranted.

[1480]

joegrundeman: Thanks for taking time to respond. Point to me where I said once that the man deserved to be shot. I never did. I said they would have been more then likely justified. No one deserves to die ultimately and I really wish that could be the fact, we would not to need be armed if that was the case, now wouldn't it.

Your argument about who pays my salary and therefore they have the right to criticize my actions. Lets break that down a bit more, shall we. By what you posit, that would make them by very definition, my boss. Then it follows logically that they can also tell me what to do. Think about that for a moment, I pull you over for reckless driving, and you remind me of the fact that you pay my salary, so I should not issue a citation. Utopia!

The point being the policeman had an objective, which was to talk the guy down. Then presumably he thought he could solve the problem with a taser, without actually thinking through the obvious consequences of his actions.

If you really read the article, why are you castigating the officer that used the taser? The officer was ordered to use the taser by his supervisor. Your outrage is directed at the wrong person. Don't you think that this will haunt him for the rest of his life? What the officer in charge of the scene was thinking, I'm not sure since I was not there.

HT: I wish I could shoot like that. The fact of the matter is there are many factors involved when a person gets involved in a situation where the reptile brain (the fight or flight instinct) takes over. Rapid breathing, rapid production of adrenaline, increase in heart rate, loss of fine motor skills and tunnel vision. Taking that all into account, that we're lucky enough to hit a target that realtively large only 3 out of 10 times, shows just how powerful these factors really are. Secondly, break glass and what do you have? An object just as dangerous as a straight razor.

Zachster:

So the officer was trapped. Could not retreat and thus it was warranted to kill? Tell me this Mr Public servant would you have pulled your sidearm and fired? If so please inform your department of your posts here because I think they need to know your mental state in my opinion.

Did you read the entire article? The man attempted to force himself into a 2nd floor occupied apartment. What happens if he makes entry and hurts the occupant? The folks would be screaming that the police did not do enough to prevent that from happening. And rightly so. I do not know what I would have done if I was there, since I was not there. What got my goat is, since no one had prefaced any of their critical statements with, "....I saw the whole thing happen, or I just happened to be there....." that they automatically become an expert in what the officers should have done. Funny thing is, I reread the article and not once did I see where the police tell him to get into a confrontation with his mother, took the man out of the apartment, strip him naked, put him on a fire escape, give him a flouresent glass tube, move his arms, attempt to push him through an apartment window and then instruct him to ignore them when they would use verbal commands. The officers did not discharge their duty weapons. They used a less than lethal force option, unfortunately to a tragic ending. And I never once brought up anyone's mental state on the board, so I'm not sure why you would take the time to question mine.

I could not stop laughing at your efforts to make the contents of tube lights look to be like some kind of super danger when in the case a broken bulb it is recommended to leave and move outside or well vented area. And simply sweep up the remains afterwords.

You do realize that the type of mercury used is released in vapor form. If there isn't any danger from inhaling mercury, why do they tell you to take those steps? Going another step, brake pads were made, back in the day, with asbestos. Asbestos is only dangerous when inhaled, so why did they ban it? You don't drive your vehicle inside? Asbestos brake pads were great for their longevity and performance, yet they were banned from use where their primary location and use was for outside?
Inhaling asbestos does not kill instantly but causes a deadly cancer with repeated exposure. Mercury causes damage to the central nervous system even in miniscule amounts , so if a substance does not cause immediate death, it's okay to be exposed to it?

[Frame57]

A friend of mine is a deputy. He stands about 6' 4" and weighs 270 lbs. He was making a tazer demo video for the department. He volunteered to be the attacker and another deputy was to taze him. He was able to mock assualt the deputy after several tazes. The tazer could not bring him down, but what was odd about this is when I talked to him recently the effects of the tazer gave him an irregular heart beat and he had to have it shocked back to normal rythem. They were unaware that this could happen...

[1480]

"During the struggle, the officers were attacked by the man wielding broken pieces of glass and he was fired upon and killed," said a press release from the Mankato Department of Public Safety. It's believed to be the first time Mankato Police have ever shot and killed someone.

http://wcco.com/local/naked.intruder....2.620530.html

SACRAMENTO – A man with two prior serious convictions was sentenced last week to 25 years to life for spousal battery and assault with a deadly weapon after an incident last year in which he attacked his wife with broken glass.

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/775679.html

Eliminate the possibility of broken glass becoming a deadly weapon with our Stainless Steel Mirrors. Nickel-chrome-plated frame attaches to wall or back plate with tamper-resistant Torx screws.

(or to spay and neuter your pet)


http://www.bobbarker.com/webguest/bG...egory=00000319

The director of emergency medicine at Sydney's St Vincent's Hospital, Dr Gordian Fulde, says he has noticed an increase in the number of people presenting with glass-inflicted wounds.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...30/2074440.htm

The risk of injury from the storage, handling and disposal of glassware or broken glass exists in most workplaces. Broken glass can cause lacerations, cuts, and puncture wounds which may result in severed arteries or tendons, amputations, eye injuries, or exposure to disease.

http://www.scif.com/safety/safetymee...p?ArticleID=55

Broken glass can cause serious cuts, loss of blood and infected wounds. Glass bottles should be kept out of the reach of young children, and the house and play area should be kept free of broken glass. Young children should be taught not to touch broken glass; older children should be taught to dispose of any broken glass safely.

http://www.unicef.org/ffl/text/12/4.htm

STOCKHOLM (AFP) — Rowdy bars may no longer be quite as dangerous thanks to a British professor who won a criminology prize on Wednesday for his work showing how injuries from broken glass can be reduced.
Jonathan Shepherd, a face surgeon and professor at Cardiff University, won the Stockholm Prize in Criminology with his research into bar fights and glass-related injuries.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...AC38KDMjnhNUYA

[1480]

Originally Posted by Frame57

A friend of mine is a deputy. He stands about 6' 4" and weighs 270 lbs. He was making a tazer demo video for the department. He volunteered to be the attacker and another deputy was to taze him. He was able to mock assualt the deputy after several tazes. The tazer could not bring him down, but what was odd about this is when I talked to him recently the effects of the tazer gave him an irregular heart beat and he had to have it shocked back to normal rythem. They were unaware that this could happen...

Could be a genetic problem. I certainly hope he is all right. It's not perfect but so far is a nice tool to have. Recently they have placed mini cameras in the tasers to record the use and actions of the taser. Not many people know that the taser is equipped with a memory chip that records how the taser was used and the information is downloaded to a computer.

[Mikhayl]

Do you happen to have a dozen links explaining how a naked man standing on a narrow 10 feet high roll-down gate can harm four cops with said light tube ?

[1480]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Do you happen to have a dozen links explaining how a naked man standing on a narrow 10 feet high roll-down gate can harm four cops with said light tube ?

Haven't googled it yet, but give me some time

A side note: do you how difficult it is to get a secure hold on a sweaty naked person? (let the jokes begin)

And to answer your question 148 officers were killed in the line of duty from the classification of "falls", 388 were "stabbed" to death, 499 were listed as "assaulted" for the reason of their murder, 31 exposure to toxins, and 104 to duty related illness. Any of those scenarios could have easily happened in this situation. These stats are from 1791-2008 in the US alone.

Source: http://odmp.org/

[SS107.9MHz]

So if a guy waves a cigarette or a well-done pork chop at a police officer we can assume he is getting him in a lethal threat (cuz they cause cancer too you know) with no chance to escape as was clearly the case in this situation (NOT), so that gives the officer permission to shoot him, even with a non-lethal weapon but obviously with very serious consequences...

Naked crazy guy + Angry Cop = Dead crazy guy

Not that complicated

[Mikhayl]

I'm sure cops are trained well enough to handle a sweaty man especially when they're four around him. Anyway no matter how hard you try to justify it, now the guy is dead because a moron thought that tazing a man standing 10 feet above ground was a good move. Might as well have pushed him. Another victim of that orwellian weapon

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You know, in some cases I don't think cops use their smarts as much as they could, or try and be creative.

Indeed. I find the same thinking more deeply disturbing than the more widespread use of tazers.
No offence to any serving, but there's a lot of very thick pigs in the UK. Mores the pity.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Another victim of that orwellian weapon

Orwellian?

Could you elaborate a bit?
They don't strike me as symbols of dystopia.

[Mikhayl]

Ah, I didn't think of it that way, just the "non lethal weapon" reminds me of the "minister of peace" and that sort of thing, nothing really deep I'm affraid

[1480]

Originally Posted by SS107.9Mhz

So if a guy waves a cigarette or a well-done pork chop at a police officer we can assume he is getting him in a lethal threat (cuz they cause cancer too you know) with no chance to escape as was clearly the case in this situation (NOT), so that gives the officer permission to shoot him, even with a non-lethal weapon but obviously with very serious consequences...

Naked crazy guy + Angry Cop = Dead crazy guy

Not that complicated

Pork chops slathered in apple sauce, yes.


People are making light (no pun) of the fact that man was armed. The chemical inside of said bulb is toxic. I still do not get any straight answers out of anyone, except two people, that they should have waited the idiot out. Fine that was what I was originally asking for. Exposure to something that can be avoided is a good thing, no? My whole point is that glass when broken, is a deadly weapon, compound it with the fact that there is a toxic substance inside of it.


Mikahyl: I could care care less how trained an officer is, picture a landing as I described and try to get all 4 officers to surround said person, wrestle someone down who is naked and sweaty , put cuffs on them and no one fall off the fire escape. Hollywood yes, real life probably not. BTW, we train in control techniques on flat ground, you cannot simulate all adverse conditions. And you'll be glad to know we are getting standard issue comfy pillows to defend ourselves in place of the tasers, next week.


I never said once that I thought the officer's actions were justified. The department, along with the states attorney office will conduct an investigation. If it leads to a criminal indictment and conviction then I will say how I really feel about what happened because all of the facts will come to light. A preliminary judgement of guilt is being leveled upon the affected officers before there ever was an investigation into their actions. Over here there is a presumption of innocent until proven guilty unless you happen to be the police.