Dutch memorial getting build for German Wehrmacht hero

[Fish]

Originally Posted by NEON DEON

:rotfl:

Yeah kinda made the words my own but thats it. Thanks for the videos they were good.

An other priceless comedy from the UK:

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

This all leads one to think that they didnt try to do what was morally right but what was in their nations interest at a given time.

America didn't disregard any treaties like the Europeans did. Europe sat on it's ass and let it's neighbors be destroyed. Europe brought WW2 upon itself. Why should the U.S. get involved in Europe's f#@k ups? A country can't afford morals and must always act in it's own interests. If countries were going to act just on morals the world would be in a permanent state of world war.

USA practically sit aside for almost three years, lended money, made tanks/planes, and dropped a nuke.

And that was very good of us too. There is no way you can even cheapen it. Without it you were lost, period. Most Americans preferred not to get involved with that self made mess and some political circles wanted to aline with Germany. You can thank Hitler for declaring war on us because without it we still might not of gotten militarily involved. The president had to be thrilled to bits when Hitler did that.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

America didn't disregard any treaties like the Europeans did. Europe sat on it's ass and let it's neighbors be destroyed. Europe brought WW2 upon itself. Why should the U.S. get involved in Europe's f#@k ups? A country can't afford morals and must always act in it's own interests. If countries were going to act just on morals the world would be in a permanent state of world war.

And that was very good of us too. There is no way you can even cheapen it. Without it you were lost, period. Most Americans preferred not to get involved with that self made mess and some political circles wanted to aline with Germany. You can thank Hitler for declaring war on us because without it we still might not of gotten militarily involved. The president had to be thrilled to bits when Hitler did that.

I was just replying to an argument that individual Germans should have stood up against Hitler in a time when the worlds most powerful nations didnt. Also moralisation about the Holocaust is kinda empty if someone feels it was not your place to get involved. I know the Israelis see this hyppocrisy and probably have better relations with Germany than with many of the so called Allies.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

I was just replying to an argument that individual Germans should have stood up against Hitler in a time when the worlds most powerful nations didnt. Also moralisation about the Holocaust is kinda empty if someone feels it was not your place to get involved. I know the Israelis see this hyppocrisy and probably have better relations with Germany than with many of the so called Allies.

What worked for Hitler is that he picked Germany up out of the dirt. He had a huge propaganda machine that painted Jews as one of the main reasons for Germany's hardships.
So with continual military victory's, prosperity and intense nationalistic feelings there was no voice raised about the Jewish question. It was also personally unhealthy to protest Hitler and companies actions. The brown shirts would beat protesters to death with the polezi watching.
Lets be straight about the morality issue. Even after the war nobody wanted the Jews in their country. Even in America they went from the ship to virtual prison camps at first. That was part of the reason for the birth of Israel (in my opinion). Morality in a nation is an issue when it is to it's advantage to have it. Showing morals as a German citizen would have you ostracized from your friends and neighbors and could see you in a concentration camp. How strong would your moral outrage be?

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

What worked for Hitler is that he picked Germany up out of the dirt. He had a huge propaganda machine that painted Jews as one of the main reasons for Germany's hardships.
So with continual military victory's, prosperity and intense nationalistic feelings there was no voice raised about the Jewish question. It was also personally unhealthy to protest Hitler and companies actions. The brown shirts would beat protesters to death with the polezi watching.
Lets be straight about the morality issue. Even after the war nobody wanted the Jews in their country. Even in America they went from the ship to virtual prison camps at first. That was part of the reason for the birth of Israel (in my opinion). Morality in a nation is an issue when it is to it's advantage to have it. Showing morals as a German citizen would have you ostracized from your friends and neighbors and could see you in a concentration camp. How strong would your moral outrage be?

Very well summed up, and people should stop beating the Germans every time with their countrys past. No country has made as much effort to learn from the past.
Its even gone to a point, that it has started to be a disability in foreign and internal politics.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

people should stop beating the Germans every time with their countrys past. No country has made as much effort to learn from the past.

Thanks.
But I've got to confess that some of my countrymen are about to forget what has happened or are even denying the facts. (especially in areas with a high unemployment rate...) Lets hope the economic "boom" will settle that...

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Thanks.
But I've got to confess that some of my countrymen are about to forget what has happened or are even denying the facts. (especially in areas with a high unemployment rate...) Lets hope the economic "boom" will settle that...

In the East especially, but they lived their childhood under another dictatorship.
But you are being apologetic again, theres probably more neo Nazis in other countries.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

In the East especially, but they lived their childhood under another dictatorship.
But you are being apologetic again, theres probably more neo Nazis in other countries.

Hm. In a wider context, a second view on something that is somwhat linked to it:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...551423,00.html

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Hm. In a wider context, a second view on something that is somwhat linked to it:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...551423,00.html

More on the official realations.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...541892,00.html

[Skybird]

question is if the official relations can really cover up the less enthusiastic unofficial sentiments. Politicians love to paint reality in different colours. If I would need to give an advice to Israel, it would be: don't put your trust in Germany, for our politicans are election-bitches like every other nation's too. I also would say that it seems to me more of europe would prefer Israel to just be gone over night and get closer with Isiamic nations, instead the other way around. and not few countries do not hide their hostility towards Israel and their one-sided bias at all.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Skybird

question is if the official relations can really cover up the less enthusiastic unofficial sentiments. Politicians love to paint reality in different colours. If I would need to give an advice to Israel, it would be: don't put your trust in Germany, for our politicans are election-bitches like every other nation's too. I also would say that it seems to me more of europe would prefer Israel to just be gone over night and get closer with Isiamic nations, instead the other way around. and not few countries do not hide their hostility towards Israel and their one-sided bias at all.

Thats the biggest reason they have the nuke.