Any rifle owners or hunters here?

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by August

If you're gonna spend a grand on a rifle then $500 for a scope is not unreasonable. I'd still go with the regular 700 version though. If you get that scope you can always reuse it if you upgrade the rifle in a couple years.

Well, so I thought. But you seemed to think that was way too much. Does the XCR 700 run closer to $1000?

Why do you say that part in yellow? ...is it the cost?

That's the thing... I'd hate spending more money in a year to buy another big bore rilfle. Why do you think I might want to upgrade if I got a regular 700?

[Yahoshua]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

I have no intention of buying a used rifle. As I mentioned, cost is not an issue. I'm no collector though. I think the X-bolt is just a continuation of the A-bolt line but with some sort of new X-scope mount or something like that. Seems like if the A-bolt was OK the X is gonna be OK too... but that may just be my misguided notion.

Haven't lost anything? I'd lose time; right? I don't see myself sitting out a season or two waiting to see what happens with the X-bolt. Shoot if I wait that long I'll probably come up with a good reason not to buy one at all! :rotfl:

I could make a similar comparison with the Remington 700 and the Remington 710. Just because the 700 is a wonderful action doesn't mean that the 710 will be just as flawless.

And by "losing" anything I mean by spending money on a rifle where you beleived what the salesman told you and then found out it has a couple of kinks in the works. After about a year or so any kinks the product might have will be noted and worked out, or it may mean that the rifle is best avoided.

Lastly, a used rifle, provided the barrel is in like-new condition, can be a bargain buy if you know what to look for. I've seen some rifles come through the shop to be sold that people didn't want for whatever reason and they decide to sell it after shooting only about 100 rounds through the barrel.

This is equivalent to buying a brand new car, putting 10,000 miles on it and then deciding to sell it off because you don't like something about it. The next buyer gets the bargain.

Originally Posted by aaronblood

When you say "not drilled" does that mean I have to do something special to alter the rifle to accept a scope? I definitely don't want to be drilling on the thing! It needs to be scope-ready in one way or another.

Most factory rifles have the receiver drilled and tapped in 4 places (2 spots on the front half, 2 spots on the rear half) to mate with a scope base. Other manufacturers have a "picatinny" style mount system where instead of drilling and tapping the receiver, they make angled cuts on the side that is similar to that of the picatinny rail. So you'll need to get a scope base that clamps on the rail, not one that requires a drilled and tapped receiver.

*For future reference, please don't attempt to drill and tap the receiver yourself if you ever decide to change the scope base style.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

I could make a similar comparison with the Remington 700 and the Remington 710. Just because the 700 is a wonderful action doesn't mean that the 710 will be just as flawless.

Mmmm... perhaps a good reason to favor the 700 over the X-bolt then; a proven design. ...or maybe stick to the A-bolt.

Thanks for all the excellent input and explanations!

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

The only difference I can see in recoil between bolt and semi-auto is that the latter is heavier. They use the same cartridge. I also don't see why one would be more accurate than the other.

Im not usre that someone else has answered this allready, but here goes. It is to do with the barrel harmonics. Every time a shot is fired the barrel vibrates, the less touching it the better since it will allways vibrate the same way giving your bullets a more predictable path, thats why a free floating (barrel only comes into contact with anything at the breach) barrel is preferable for sharpshooting. With gas operated semi automatic rifles this is not possible since there is need for a gas take off point to cycle the action and in some rifles the actiopn begins to cycle before the first roun has left the barrel causing more vibration possibly altering the course of the round.

[August]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Well, so I thought. But you seemed to think that was way too much. Does the XCR 700 run closer to $1000?

Why do you say that part in yellow? ...is it the cost?

That's the thing... I'd hate spending more money in a year to buy another big bore rilfle. Why do you think I might want to upgrade if I got a regular 700?

Yeah, I looked up the price of the XCR it runs around a grand. The regular 700 runs about half that.

Re upgrade. Actually I think you'll be quite happy with the regular 700 but I don't know you well enough to tell whether you will become a real affectionado.

[Yahoshua]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Every time a shot is fired the barrel vibrates, the less touching it the better since it will allways vibrate the same way giving your bullets a more predictable path, thats why a free floating (barrel only comes into contact with anything at the breach) barrel is preferable for sharpshooting. With gas operated semi automatic rifles this is not possible since there is need for a gas take off point to cycle the action and in some rifles the actiopn begins to cycle before the first roun has left the barrel causing more vibration possibly altering the course of the round.

The heart of this matter is consistency, however you are correct in principle. The barrel must either be consistently touching the surface of the stock during firing, or nothing at all (best arrangement). USMC snipers have their rifles fully bedded with marine-tex while most target shooters have their rifles free-floated. The only difference between the two arrangements is the purpose of their setup.

As for gas-operated firearms it depends on a number of other variables that must fall into place and function correctly to attain excellent accuracy, but I've run out of time and have to go to work now......

[Yahoshua]

Now that I'm back....

AFAIK Tikka has had no such problems with the magazine. And I was talking about your situation with my co-worker and his advice on the Browning A-bolt is to forget about it and go for something else as the A-bolt has some design flaws with the bolt and trigger assembly (I forget all the deatils but I got the gist of it), but they're manufactured with excellent barrel quality.

Also, Remington came out with the 770 this year and knowing that it's a design meant to correct the flaws of the 710, I'd avoid this rifle for a year and wait to see how it turns out.

And I looked around for rifles that would best suit your needs and what you intend to use it for. We have a couple of rifles in the shop where I work that can fill your bill, and another that we could order (unless you find somebody local that has the rifle in stock).

What we have in the shop are:

-Winchester Model 70 chambered in .270 Winchester, used rifle it's about 1/3 of it's way through it's barrel life and just seems like it needs a bit of cleaning up. This rifle already has a redfield scope mounted on it, leather sling, wood stock, and it's a GREAT deal at $440.

My only beef with the Winchester Mod. 70 is that while they were first produced, they had the best trigger and bolt safety on the market but not much else on the gun was very impressive. However, If you like it, great, if you don't then you could turn it around and sell it again or give it away to a relative.

-Savage 111 chambered in .270 Winchester. Synthetic stock with factory installed scope. Brand new at $524.95.

-Mossberg 100 ATR, nylon padded sling, has scope bases installed but no scope. Used, but in "like-new" condition and is selling for $275.

What we don't have but one I would reccommend you look around for would be a Remington 798 chambered in .270 Winchester. We can order one from our distributor at $500 (retail price).

If you aren't comfortable with the above choices, Tikka and Sako both make good rifles so long as you understand what you're getting.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

AFAIK Tikka has had no such problems with the magazine.

Here's the review I saw on the Tikka T3 Lite that mentioned the $100 plastic clip. Just wondered if that's common...

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

And I was talking about your situation with my co-worker and his advice on the Browning A-bolt is to forget about it and go for something else as the A-bolt has some design flaws with the bolt and trigger assembly (I forget all the deatils but I got the gist of it), but they're manufactured with excellent barrel quality.

Also, Remington came out with the 770 this year and knowing that it's a design meant to correct the flaws of the 710, I'd avoid this rifle for a year and wait to see how it turns out..

Thanks for asking... I'll stay away from the 710 and 770. First I've heard anyone say anything about avoiding an A-bolt.

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

And I looked around for rifles that would best suit your needs and what you intend to use it for. We have a couple of rifles in the shop where I work that can fill your bill, and another that we could order (unless you find somebody local that has the rifle in stock).

What we have in the shop are:

-Winchester Model 70 chambered in .270 Winchester, used rifle it's about 1/3 of it's way through it's barrel life and just seems like it needs a bit of cleaning up. This rifle already has a redfield scope mounted on it, leather sling, wood stock, and it's a GREAT deal at $440.

My only beef with the Winchester Mod. 70 is that while they were first produced, they had the best trigger and bolt safety on the market but not much else on the gun was very impressive. However, If you like it, great, if you don't then you could turn it around and sell it again or give it away to a relative.

-Savage 111 chambered in .270 Winchester. Synthetic stock with factory installed scope. Brand new at $524.95.

-Mossberg 100 ATR, nylon padded sling, has scope bases installed but no scope. Used, but in "like-new" condition and is selling for $275.

What we don't have but one I would reccommend you look around for would be a Remington 798 chambered in .270 Winchester. We can order one from our distributor at $500 (retail price).

If you aren't comfortable with the above choices, Tikka and Sako both make good rifles so long as you understand what you're getting.

Not interested... but appreciate the fact that you took the time to check and post the info. What exactly is "dura-wood" (mossberg) anyway? I think of all those, I'll probably keep the 798 in the back of my mind though.

My requirements (if I hadn't already mentioned):

1. not used
2. stainless steel
3. composite stock
4. 30-06

Factors influencing those requirements. I live in S. Florida; high humidity, 3 miles from the ocean. Salt corrosion and rust is a concern.

I haven't had good experiences buying used things. I always find some reason to regret it. Just not going to do that anymore.

My father-in-law doesn't have a 30-06; he's already got 270's. He'll buy mine if I decide I don't want it, besides the 06 is ubiquitous. Somethin's been around for over a century... must've done something right.

I think my top 2 at the moment are:

1. Remington 700 XCR
2. Browning X-Bolt SS

Still open to opinions... I've got a thread going now on the HuntingNet forum where I asked folks if they'd buy stainless. You all have at least given me enough info where I can not feel too newbly on a hunter's forum.

Thanks for the input!

[Yahoshua]

Ah.....k At least you can say you learned something from it all right?

As for the A-bolt it's something I mentioned before in the differences in what the salesman will tell you and what the service dept. says. You guys (customers) get to play with rifles when they work, we have to play with them when they're broken. So if it isn't fun to fix or it's something I know is hard to get parts for I don't really want it.

I read up on the forum post a bit and one of the guys has a good suggestion which is to cerakote the rifle after you get it (assuming you like it and intend to keep it that is). This will add an additional layer of rust-protection onto the rifle.

Have fun and be safe.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

Ah.....k At least you can say you learned something from it all right?

Indeed, most helpful!

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

As for the A-bolt it's something I mentioned before in the differences in what the salesman will tell you and what the service dept. says. You guys (customers) get to play with rifles when they work, we have to play with them when they're broken. So if it isn't fun to fix or it's something I know is hard to get parts for I
don't really want it.

Haven't spoken with a single salesperson actually; just been listening to what hunters say, reading and watching reviews, skimming the forums and so forth. Can't imagine how people ever bought things without Google.

I can't seem to find anyone who can really knock the M700. Definitely a good number of Browning fans out there too though... the only other negative I heard about Browning was from one guy who just didn't like "Made in Japan" stamped on his barrel.

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

I read up on the forum post a bit and one of the guys has a good suggestion which is to cerakote the rifle after you get it (assuming you like it and intend to keep it that is). This will add an additional layer of rust-protection onto the rifle.

Have fun and be safe.

I'll look into the cerakote, thanks for your suggestions and insight.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

What we don't have but one I would reccommend you look around for would be a Remington 798 chambered in .270 Winchester. We can order one from our distributor at $500 (retail price).

...now you've got me off researching the 98 Mauser. Is the Remington 798 the only modern Mauser rifle?

What exactly makes the Mauser action so special? Seems like a lot of folks go out of their way to convert old surplus military Mausers to sporting rifles just for this action.

[Yahoshua]

Yes, the Remington 798 is a copy of the Mauser style action. So is the Springfield 1903, the Remington 700, Sako 75, Sako 85, Winchester model 70 and a whole lot of other manufacturers as well. So the short answer is no, it's not the only "modern mauser". In fact, the Mauserwerke company still produces mausers for the civilian market:

http://www.mauserwaffen.de/Rifles.61.0.html?&L=1

The Mauser action is a simple, effective, and proven design that is very flexible. If quality steel is used and the action is properly made it will practically last forever even with heavy use and multiple rebarreling so long as it's taken care of. It is also the benchmark against which all other bolt-action rifles in existence are meausured against in the firearms industry.

But the main differences between the different manufacturers are the little details of whatever cosmetic changes they made to the bolt sleeve, the action, or introduced their own trigger etc. But also in the quality of the materials they put into making the rifle (planned obsolescence). Some manufacturers design their rifles for that "deer season only" hunter who will take their rifle out of the closet during hunting season and then leave it back in the closet for the rest of the year. Those rifles are not quality guns and aren't meant to be kept alive after a period of time.

As for sporterizing Mausers, it's alot like taking an old car and putting a new coat of paint on it and doing a body job. It's all cosmetic and IMO it's a waste of my time and the customers' money. If people want to pay big bucks to sporterize an old mauser I'll do it, but not before doing my damndest to try and talk them out of it and try to convince them to spend their money on a "modern" mauser rather than do a facelift for the old one.

[XLjedi]

So is "Bolt Action" and "Mauser Action" one-in-the-same then?

[Yahoshua]

Bolt action is a type of action design. Bolt action as opposed to gas-operated semi-autos, recoil-operated semi-autos, break-opens, and pump actions.

The Mauser action refers to that specific design of bolt action which all modern bolt-actions are based off of, but with cosmetic changes, differences in quality, and some other integral parts that may be changed is what we end up with from other manufacturers. Some designs are quite ingenous, others are the same package with a different label.

To simplify it best it's like taking an Oreo cookie, making the sandwich brown and the filling green and stamping "chips ahoy" on the packaging and may taste horrible when compared to an original oreo. It's still an oreo but produced by a different company.

[XLjedi]

Man this is like the hardest thing I've ever had to buy! It didn't take me this long to buy a house or any of my vehicles.

Usually, when I jump into a new hobby (my wife says I have too many BTW) I just investigate it for like a week or two and figure out which companies make the best stuff research a little and buy it.

But when it comes to rifles...

Let's put aside for a moment the fact that there is no perfect caliber for all hunting... and just try to focus on who makes the best quality rifle.

It seems like a lot are good, none are perfect...

If you like the Browning's you guys have said the A-bolts have design flaws. Some talk bad about Savage and yet Chuck Hawks says Savage has the best trigger ever made (although you mentioned it was horrible). The Remington's don't look quite as nice, but seem to be a good dependable model. Ruger M77 Mark 2 is mentioned to be one of the finest bolt action rifles ever produced... and yet it has a total crap trigger and the laminate stock on the stainless model makes me want to vomit. Tikkas have plastic parts... Kimber is a crap shoot... Weatherby

Oh, speaking of the stock. I decided I like walnut now. On the one hand, wood "breathes" and can cause your aim to be slightly high or low, depending on heat and relative humidity. On the other hand, synthetics are not as rigid as wood and therefore can flex, also throwing off aim. The synthetics are tough against the elements and downright painful on the eyes. Wood looks great, but maybe can't take as much environmental abuse? I think I'm leaning more toward the wood now after reading the Chuck Hawks commentary... but there aren't too many stainless models with walnut stocks. At least not a satin or oil finished walnut stock. I couldn't use one of those hi-gloss models... I'm just to hard on equipment.

For whatever reason it's nearly impossible to find the rifle I want, in the caliber I want, from the manufacturer that I want, that has all the right pieces and made from the stuff I want.

I need like a Browning X-bolt Hunter with a satin walnut stock and stainless steel... in a 30-06. ...and hopefully the new X-bolt is cured of whatever ailments you guys noticed in the A-bolt. Is that too much to ask?

Ah well, gimme another week and I'll probably be looking at AR-15's.

I guess short of building something custom, I'm just gonna have to compromise...

I think I'm down to the Browning. One of these two:
X-Bolt Hunter, walnut/blue steel (I like the looks of this one best)
X-Bolt Stalker, synth/stainless (I probably need this one though)

Maybe I can get away with the blued steel if I put that coating on it you mentioned?