Abortion and You - Page 4

Skybird · 01-26-08, 07:02 PM

Tak,

Steve has no reason needing to trust in his record in order to get away with his post - his post is perfectly fine in form, and correct in content. If you want to sanction somebody here, then target Knipper's condescending comment on "posting at deadbaby.com" - and even that maybe is not worth it.

Knipper · 01-26-08, 07:51 PM

Sorry if I came over condesending folks. It just struck me there are so many other places on the net to talk about stuff like this. Far be it from me to stifle free speech though. Anywayz, take no notice, I'm just a bit grouchy cos I gave up smoking Jan 1 after 40 years. For my two penn'orth, I'm with Penelope on this one.

Skybird · 01-26-08, 08:09 PM

I see no issue having happened anyway, so never mind, Knipper, that's why Takeda surprised me with his intervention, and that especially towards Steve. So, one guy here got too little nicotine, and somebody else got too much coffein, that's all!

Neal wants the general forum to be a place were even many non-navy things can be discussed, like you talk in a bar or a lounge, only that potentially flamatory political and religious topics get tighter monitoring now and are tolerated at reduced numbers only, which is okay. Abortion might be strange to be discussed here - but we have seen much more weird stuff getting discussed in the GT forum over the years. Everybody can participate, but nobody must participate. Can't get more reasonable, i think. Ah, and good luck with your no-smoke-policy - I'm sure it's worth to be followed!

Knipper · 01-26-08, 08:47 PM

Thanks Skybird, you are very understanding.

Skybird · 01-26-08, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knipper

Thanks Skybird, you are very understanding.

With most things, yes; but not with all.

Onkel Neal · 01-27-08, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Morally, I too am against abortion. Legally, I think things should stay exactly as they are, because I also realize that it is my moral belief, which not everyone agrees with, and as has been said, you can't legislate morality. If a woman disagrees, it's her body, her baby, her right and her decision, and no-one else's; not yours, not mine.

Hold on, the father should have equal decision power. After all, if the woman decides to give birth, he has to provide 50% of the support (well, actually more like 80%).

Neal, I think in the position the woman is (choosing abortion) the father is most times not interested.

That's probably true. I'm just highlighting the inconsistency--the woman's right to choose should not be an absolute right. What if the father wants to abort, why can't his right to choose trump the mother's right to carry the fetus to full term? That's equally his genetic material in there.

Who can deny, if your mother had aborted her fetus in the first trimester, you would not be here to argue this issue either way. Maybe that is not murder, to remove a clump of cells. But it is denying some eventual human being the complete right to exist.

I also cannot help but notice, that even firmly empowered with the "right to choose", most women feel shame about having an abortion. That says something.

What puzzles me, in this day and age, why unwanted pregnacies are so prevalent? Birth control is very easy and convenient. And with STDs, wth are people doing out there?

That's how I feel about it, but note this, I wouldn't cross the street to protest or campaign against Roe vs Wade. If someone wants to abort their own child, I think it's wrong but I won't lift a finger to stop them. I think it could be an ironic self-regulating form of soical Darwinism.

Hope I didn't anger anyone, just my opinion.

Onkel Neal · 01-27-08, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I see no issue having happened anyway, so never mind, Knipper, that's why Takeda surprised me with his intervention, and that especially towards Steve. So, one guy here got too little nicotine, and somebody else got too much coffein, that's all!

Neal wants the general forum to be a place were even many non-navy things can be discussed, like you talk in a bar or a lounge, only that potentially flamatory political and religious topics get tighter monitoring now and are tolerated at reduced numbers only, which is okay. Abortion might be strange to be discussed here - but we have seen much more weird stuff getting discussed in the GT forum over the years. Everybody can participate, but nobody must participate. Can't get more reasonable, i think. Ah, and good luck with your no-smoke-policy - I'm sure it's worth to be followed!

I can't speak for Tak, but I think he was just wryly observing Steve's comment. Steve has a lot of cred, and states something point blank, most people know it holds water.

Sailor Steve · 01-27-08, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knipper

Sorry if I came over condesending folks. It just struck me there are so many other places on the net to talk about stuff like this.

Very true...but we have so much fun here.

Quote:

I'm just a bit grouchy cos I gave up smoking Jan 1 after 40 years.

And that is a very good reason to be grouchy!

Quote:

For my two penn'orth, I'm with Penelope on this one.

With which I can't argue; but then I think I stated that that's my feeling too.

Stealth Hunter · 01-27-08, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

LOL this is great... a bunch of men debating abortion!?

It's the sequel to Twelve Angry Men:

A Forum of Angry Men, A Poll, and What the Moderators Saw.

Skybird · 01-27-08, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

I see no issue having happened anyway, so never mind, Knipper, that's why Takeda surprised me with his intervention, and that especially towards Steve. So, one guy here got too little nicotine, and somebody else got too much coffein, that's all!

Neal wants the general forum to be a place were even many non-navy things can be discussed, like you talk in a bar or a lounge, only that potentially flamatory political and religious topics get tighter monitoring now and are tolerated at reduced numbers only, which is okay. Abortion might be strange to be discussed here - but we have seen much more weird stuff getting discussed in the GT forum over the years. Everybody can participate, but nobody must participate. Can't get more reasonable, i think. Ah, and good luck with your no-smoke-policy - I'm sure it's worth to be followed!

I can't speak for Tak, but I think he was just wryly observing Steve's comment. Steve has a lot of cred, and states something point blank, most people know it holds water.

If that is true, I apologize if he thinks I commented on him for wrong reasons. sometimes the humour in writing is not that obvious like it is when being said vis-a-vis. At least my excuse is that what you just said about Steve is the reason why I defended him. Four friendly PM meanwhile show that Knipper and me have no probs whatever, too, so I probably scrambled for a false alert. Sorry, guys.

Iceman · 01-27-08, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Morally, I too am against abortion. Legally, I think things should stay exactly as they are, because I also realize that it is my moral belief, which not everyone agrees with, and as has been said, you can't legislate morality. If a woman disagrees, it's her body, her baby, her right and her decision, and no-one else's; not yours, not mine.

Hold on, the father should have equal decision power. After all, if the woman decides to give birth, he has to provide 50% of the support (well, actually more like 80%).

Neal, I think in the position the woman is (choosing abortion) the father is most times not interested.

That's probably true. I'm just highlighting the inconsistency--the woman's right to choose should not be an absolute right. What if the father wants to abort, why can't his right to choose trump the mother's right to carry the fetus to full term? That's equally his genetic material in there.

Who can deny, if your mother had aborted her fetus in the first trimester, you would not be here to argue this issue either way. Maybe that is not murder, to remove a clump of cells. But it is denying some eventual human being the complete right to exist.

I also cannot help but notice, that even firmly empowered with the "right to choose", most women feel shame about having an abortion. That says something.

What puzzles me, in this day and age, why unwanted pregnacies are so prevalent? Birth control is very easy and convenient. And with STDs, wth are people doing out there?

That's how I feel about it, but note this, I wouldn't cross the street to protest or campaign against Roe vs Wade. If someone wants to abort their own child, I think it's wrong but I won't lift a finger to stop them. I think it could be an ironic self-regulating form of soical Darwinism.

Hope I didn't anger anyone, just my opinion.

Excellent point there Neal...I think the point Fish made is grossly incorrect.If I get a woman pregnant and she wants to kill it and I as the father say no...then the woman should be forced to carry the child ,have it ,give it to me ,then hit the road...end of story.I would be happy with that decision by judges...at the very "Least" give the father a chance which only seems fair since if the tables were turned the woman may legally demand support for the child even if the father did not want it....Great point Neal.

Mikey_Wolf · 01-28-08, 06:09 AM

Like it or not lads - when it comes to babies, its a biological fact that the woman does all the hard work, so personally I think that the final say rests with her as it should do.

If she doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy and suffer agonising pain giving birth then, she should have an escape route. No man should be able to tell her she must have the baby.

Having said that, there shoudl be some sort of legal protection for a bloke who doesn't want anythiing to do with his child, in my view men like that are of very low caliber and class (unless they were tricked and became a dad without knowledge they were to become one) and I wouldn't spend time with them unless absolutely mandatory.

Knipper · 01-28-08, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

sometimes the humour in writing is not that obvious like it is when being said vis-a-vis.

That's my (and I'm sure other people's) problem with BBS and indeed IM, I get carried away with the chat and forget people can't see me smiling wryly as I reply to something I thought was funny. I'm also aware my sense of humour can get out of hand sometimes. Peace and love to all

Letum · 01-28-08, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Who can deny, if your mother had aborted her fetus in the first trimester, you would not be here to argue this issue either way. Maybe that is not murder, to remove a clump of cells. But it is denying some eventual human being the complete right to exist.

If you want to make sure that no one is denied existence than you should have an
aggressive scheme of mandatory breeding.

Billions upon billions of people are denied existence because people don't breed
constantly.

Tchocky · 01-28-08, 01:42 PM

Abortion is illegal here, which creates many more problems than it may have solved. There are thousands of young Irish women going to the UK/Continent for a long weekend :/

Criminalising abortion is a horrible thing to do, seeing as it's already one of the most traumatic choices that anyone can make.

View Poll Results: Do you think abortion should remain a right to American citizens?
Yes	45	66.18%
Undecided (Elaborate if chosen)	7	10.29%
No	16	23.53%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

01-26-08, 07:02 PM	#46
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,682 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Tak, Steve has no reason needing to trust in his record in order to get away with his post - his post is perfectly fine in form, and correct in content. If you want to sanction somebody here, then target Knipper's condescending comment on "posting at deadbaby.com" - and even that maybe is not worth it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-26-08, 07:51 PM	#47
Knipper Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bath, SW England Posts: 123 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Sorry if I came over condesending folks. It just struck me there are so many other places on the net to talk about stuff like this. Far be it from me to stifle free speech though. Anywayz, take no notice, I'm just a bit grouchy cos I gave up smoking Jan 1 after 40 years. For my two penn'orth, I'm with Penelope on this one. __________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

01-26-08, 08:09 PM	#48
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,682 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I see no issue having happened anyway, so never mind, Knipper, that's why Takeda surprised me with his intervention, and that especially towards Steve. So, one guy here got too little nicotine, and somebody else got too much coffein, that's all! Neal wants the general forum to be a place were even many non-navy things can be discussed, like you talk in a bar or a lounge, only that potentially flamatory political and religious topics get tighter monitoring now and are tolerated at reduced numbers only, which is okay. Abortion might be strange to be discussed here - but we have seen much more weird stuff getting discussed in the GT forum over the years. Everybody can participate, but nobody must participate. Can't get more reasonable, i think. Ah, and good luck with your no-smoke-policy - I'm sure it's worth to be followed! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-26-08, 08:47 PM	#49
Knipper Machinist's Mate Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bath, SW England Posts: 123 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Thanks Skybird, you are very understanding. __________________ Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

01-28-08, 06:09 AM	#57
Mikey_Wolf Torpedoman Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Wales Posts: 114 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Like it or not lads - when it comes to babies, its a biological fact that the woman does all the hard work, so personally I think that the final say rests with her as it should do. If she doesn't want to go through with a pregnancy and suffer agonising pain giving birth then, she should have an escape route. No man should be able to tell her she must have the baby. Having said that, there shoudl be some sort of legal protection for a bloke who doesn't want anythiing to do with his child, in my view men like that are of very low caliber and class (unless they were tricked and became a dad without knowledge they were to become one) and I wouldn't spend time with them unless absolutely mandatory. __________________ Proud Captain of U-37, U-138 (GWX 2), and U.S.S Devastator (Various mods)

01-28-08, 01:42 PM	#60
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Abortion is illegal here, which creates many more problems than it may have solved. There are thousands of young Irish women going to the UK/Continent for a long weekend :/ Criminalising abortion is a horrible thing to do, seeing as it's already one of the most traumatic choices that anyone can make. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]