If there is an SH5 - Page 4

vindex · 01-18-08, 01:54 AM

Regardless of the scenario, I'd like to see more attention paid to crew interaction and immersion issues in SH5.

Look at any sub movie and the main themes will be morale, command, and how men packed in a tin can deal with pressure and fatigue. Although many aspect of SH4 are great, you don't really get the sense of the human dimension of sub warfare. "Morale" supposedly exists for each crew member, but I've never seen anything happen to it, always "normal." The only real effect of fatigue that I have seen is the length of time needed to reload the torpedo tubes. The crew have stats, but no personality, not even your officers.

I'm not saying it should play out like a RPG, but utilize some elements from that genre might take SH to an entirely new level. Having to gauge how your officers and crew will respond to a decision, how it will affect their performance or atttitude towards you, would be both realistic and entertaining.

-----------------

On a completely different note, what I would like to see is a Hornblower-style Napoleonic sailing ship sim with technical detail and mission structure along the lines of the SH series. Patrol coasts, capture prizes, conduct special missions -- all while mastering an entirely different set of tactics based on wind and weather. Storms would be more than just eye-candy, set your sails or rudder wrong and you might not survive them. Just a thought ...

MaciejK · 01-18-08, 02:45 AM

If SH5 is to surface I'd like it to go along a path similar to that of Il-2 series or the Fighter Ops mentioned. So build on it new campaigns, theatres, subs, features. I would dearly love to have a next SH title have British submarines as well, and any other that saw at least some action during the WWII.

I don't feel like going for the Cold War period wouuld be a good idea - as it was mentioned - not enough data. And I do not like hypothetical conflicts so we could hunt for Allied convoys in a Russian nuke sub.

Maybe it would be really better to stay in the field we(and the devs, I suppose) know much about and improve it even further in terms of graphics, physics engine, features, realism, functionality. Like controlling each propeller individually, etc.

Mac

imbiginjapan · 01-18-08, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindex

Regardless of the scenario, I'd like to see more attention paid to crew interaction and immersion issues in SH5.

Look at any sub movie and the main themes will be morale, command, and how men packed in a tin can deal with pressure and fatigue. Although many aspect of SH4 are great, you don't really get the sense of the human dimension of sub warfare. "Morale" supposedly exists for each crew member, but I've never seen anything happen to it, always "normal." The only real effect of fatigue that I have seen is the length of time needed to reload the torpedo tubes. The crew have stats, but no personality, not even your officers.

I'm not saying it should play out like a RPG, but utilize some elements from that genre might take SH to an entirely new level. Having to gauge how your officers and crew will respond to a decision, how it will affect their performance or atttitude towards you, would be both realistic and entertaining.

Agreed! This is my main beef with the current game system. It's as if I'm commanding a crew of robots. Where's the part where the Chief finally cracks after one too many DC attacks?

bb-subs · 01-18-08, 07:20 PM

I agree what is needed is a new ship fighting game. Fighting Steel type with this kind of graphics and better modeled ships, damage and so on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux626

In my Opinion they need to Switch over to something like SUB HUNTER or something like SH. I wanna control a DD or a BB with the same interactivity as SH

Grant

scrag · 01-20-08, 05:45 PM

I think there is still work left for WWII Sub games:
Incorporate both theaters all platforms or as previously suggested a Sims style add on to a basic concept.
1) Make the graphics better (there is almost no light at 100 plus meters - 400 feet eliminate it - make it feel like you are deep
2) Make the A/C more reasonable - now they do 9 G verticle climbs - looks clownish - no where is a U Boat caught on the surface by a night patrol and illuminated by a Search Light too bad. Not manning AA guns cause rough sea more BS.
3) Fix the OOB only 2 Yamato class BB's completed as BB's - interactions with IJN major combatants was not that frequent.
4) Make the sound more immersive i.e. when a DD is ping away in your rear quarter and making a run you SHOULD hear the effect from your speakers (if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 system) as the DD runs you over so should the sound.
5) If a moduled based than have a large scale option (i.e. you can move boats around and make deployment issues.
6) How cool would it be to make a landing and blow up a train or do an unusual barrage of missles on to a land target.
7) Make building blow up - US Boats shelled a number of shore installations as did the Japanese - now if you fire on something it is pointless.
8) Graphics Graphics Graphics - man there is some quality stuff out there by modders - great stuff already inplace - comenstae them and use it.
There is more but you get my drift.
Regarding Cold War - previous arguement stands - not enough data too much BS regarding Weapons, Sensors and reasonable capabilities (anyone really thought about why the US never built numbers in the submarine department quickly understands that they ruled the USW environment and quickly added advanced capabilities to force the Russians into the mindset of trading at least 1 for 1 SSN wise and caused the US NOT to have a follow on SSBN because of the superiority of the current class).
Stick with the WWII Genure - you have a good sound game plan SH series is the most successful Sub game series why? The formula works so far. You have not seen a long series of modern subsims why? because generally they suck (land attack SS-N-27, ASW SS-N-27

Man the BS Life Boat

Baywing · 01-20-08, 06:45 PM

There are lots of areas to expand sims into, but the bottom line, is just that, the bottom line. If someone makes it, will they come?

u.Prestige · 01-22-08, 12:14 AM

I expect SH5 to be WW2 style Dangerous Waters

Campaign for both U-boats and USA submarines....
Single/Multiplayer missions for subs and escort DD/DE/Frigates:hmm:

Kapitan_Phillips · 01-22-08, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

It would probably be a much simpler game to make seeing as the only detection methods were eyes. No sonar until later in the war. No TDC, and very dumb torpedoes. Primative boats, and just about as primative surface vessles.

Your idea was a good one, but I think that quote is one of the reasons it wont be made. Ubi tends to try and appeal to the casual gamer aswell as the sub fanatic. The casual gamer needs all the help the game can provide, because they just want to blow stuff up and win.

I wouldnt mind trying it out, and I especially love your idea of the boat buggering up, but I think WW1 boats in that much detail really wont appeal to the entire gaming market as SH3 and SH4 have.

Just my 2p.

yamato9 · 01-23-08, 12:08 PM

Hi fellas!

It whoud be nice when next Silent Hunter (SH5) whoud have playable german, american and british submarines in game. Also it whoud be exellent to be able to control fleet formations and large units (battleships, heavy cruisers) like Bismarck, Nelson, Iowa, Yamato, Prinz Eugen, Mogami.
So that you can be in control of one flag ship but you can send radio and flag signals to other ships in formation, something like Great naval Battles, (or if you remember game DREADNOUGHTS from AMIGA) but with much better grafic and realism.

It is very strange why somebody did not produce some surface battle simulator (silent Hunter with battleships) they produced PT boats, they produced Destroyer Command but simulation with capital units....they forgot.

cgjimeneza · 06-25-08, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurora-7

I'd like a WWI sub sim, too, along with a new WWI aircombat sim that would be at least the same caliber as Red Baron 3D. I haven't been able to fly an S.E.5 in years.

Ja, does anyone remember the old WINGS for the amiga 500 with the diary, infantry straffing, ballon busting and air combat?

LeeVanSpliff · 06-26-08, 06:19 AM

If SH5 should show up and turn out to be either cold war or alternative history stuff I'm definitely not buying it. I find the cold war damn boring from the soldier's point of view ("YOU THERE! Watch this radar monitor for 40 years. If nothing happens you've won!").

I'm not a big fan of alternative history either. I believe the reason that almost every damn sci-fi movie or series rips of a historical period is that reality simply kicks the ass of imagination over and over.

A 1914 Silent Hunter submarine simulation or a new Atlantic campaign game I'd buy in a heartbeat though. I would love to know more about wwi submarines and I'm simply a sucker for German subs in 39-45: the challenge curve going from the "happy times" to the '45 situation with the allies in complete control of the skies as well as the seas works so well for a computer game.

Arclight · 06-26-08, 06:19 AM

Some of this has been mentioned already, but I'll chip in;

First of all, SH should stick with subs. Concentrating on a specific sector IMO improves the detail and emersion. Spreading the resources to make something like Dangerous Waters out of it wouldn't do it any good.

A new (fictious) setting would be nice. I'd prefer the (late) WWII technology, since I find that the most interesting. Maybe a new spin on the dynamic campaign?: Randomly generated or user definable coalitions, 2 or more. User can join any at start, maybe defections mid-war? Available boats depend on which countries are in specific coalition. Policies for coalitions can be set or randomized. For example, 2 could be at war at start, with 2 more neutral. 1 decides to join in mid-war, with the other remaining neutral till almost the end of the war. Heck, coalitions could even splinter with half the former allies suddenly turning on their former comrades or just fight their own war. It would keep the T.O. dynamic. Formerly safe waters could turn hostile in a heartbeat. Player controlled and AI ships accidentaly or "accidentaly" sinking neutral or friendly shipping could have an effect on that nations policy, causing them to leave their coalition or defect.

Now we're fighting a war with an outcome thats already set in stone. Feels a bit static to me. Either go out and hunt Japs, or go out and hunt the Allies.

To keep playability for everyone high, players should probably have no say in politics, although it could be possible for skippers with a high standing / renown ("war hero" status) to chip in in the decision making.

I also think the game should be more hardcore sim, players who don't wish to play like that still have the realism options to tweak the game to suit their style. A problem with this setting would be it doesn't follow history. Reliving historical battles that actually took place is something that drew me to SH in the first place (although besides the single missions I don't see much of that yet, short of modding the crap out of it). An option would be to include campaign "presets" to model it to historical accurate coalitions, like Axis vs. Alies.

With such a dynamic setting, it would be "easy" to mod it to Cold War; "just" add some new, more modern ships to reflect technology of that era and use the already present option to form corresponding coaltions. An addon wouldn't have to be more than that; some new models, a "preset" file to set up the adversaries, and perhaps some files that add in historical battles. It could go on for ever.

Sailor Steve · 06-26-08, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeVanSpliff

("YOU THERE! Watch this radar monitor for 40 years. If nothing happens you've won!").

:rotfl:

Excellent description!

Doolan · 06-27-08, 07:21 PM

I'll take WWI over Cold War any day, but I'd rather have Destroyer Command 2 than both of those.

My arguments in favor of a WWI focus are that everything will be even more "artistic" (with less instruments to rely on) but there will still be plenty to sink, more than in SH3 or SH4 from 1917. A Cold War sim would be a glorified chess game with a nice atmosphere, but I can't see it having the entertainment potential of unrestricted submarine warfare.

As for a DC2, it's something even SH4 would benefit from, and it's long overdue. We're already four titles into the submarine franchise and the second surface game hasn't even been suggested.

Seminole · 06-27-08, 09:58 PM

I would cheerfully purchase an updated German U-Boat WWII sim.

I wouldn't complain about a Japanese WWII subsim either.

A WWI U-Boat...I would buy it.

A duke nuke em cold war sim???...what would be the point????...

...I just float around detering the commies?

I just can't visualize this PC world allowing me to unleash total plutonium hellfire upon Moscow.

01-18-08, 02:45 AM	#47
MaciejK Torpedoman Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mielno / Warsaw - Republic of Poland Posts: 119 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 0	If SH5 is to surface I'd like it to go along a path similar to that of Il-2 series or the Fighter Ops mentioned. So build on it new campaigns, theatres, subs, features. I would dearly love to have a next SH title have British submarines as well, and any other that saw at least some action during the WWII. I don't feel like going for the Cold War period wouuld be a good idea - as it was mentioned - not enough data. And I do not like hypothetical conflicts so we could hunt for Allied convoys in a Russian nuke sub. Maybe it would be really better to stay in the field we(and the devs, I suppose) know much about and improve it even further in terms of graphics, physics engine, features, realism, functionality. Like controlling each propeller individually, etc. Mac __________________

01-20-08, 05:45 PM	#50
scrag Medic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Posts: 161 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	More immersion I think there is still work left for WWII Sub games: Incorporate both theaters all platforms or as previously suggested a Sims style add on to a basic concept. 1) Make the graphics better (there is almost no light at 100 plus meters - 400 feet eliminate it - make it feel like you are deep 2) Make the A/C more reasonable - now they do 9 G verticle climbs - looks clownish - no where is a U Boat caught on the surface by a night patrol and illuminated by a Search Light too bad. Not manning AA guns cause rough sea more BS. 3) Fix the OOB only 2 Yamato class BB's completed as BB's - interactions with IJN major combatants was not that frequent. 4) Make the sound more immersive i.e. when a DD is ping away in your rear quarter and making a run you SHOULD hear the effect from your speakers (if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 system) as the DD runs you over so should the sound. 5) If a moduled based than have a large scale option (i.e. you can move boats around and make deployment issues. 6) How cool would it be to make a landing and blow up a train or do an unusual barrage of missles on to a land target. 7) Make building blow up - US Boats shelled a number of shore installations as did the Japanese - now if you fire on something it is pointless. 8) Graphics Graphics Graphics - man there is some quality stuff out there by modders - great stuff already inplace - comenstae them and use it. There is more but you get my drift. Regarding Cold War - previous arguement stands - not enough data too much BS regarding Weapons, Sensors and reasonable capabilities (anyone really thought about why the US never built numbers in the submarine department quickly understands that they ruled the USW environment and quickly added advanced capabilities to force the Russians into the mindset of trading at least 1 for 1 SSN wise and caused the US NOT to have a follow on SSBN because of the superiority of the current class). Stick with the WWII Genure - you have a good sound game plan SH series is the most successful Sub game series why? The formula works so far. You have not seen a long series of modern subsims why? because generally they suck (land attack SS-N-27, ASW SS-N-27 Man the BS Life Boat __________________ Last edited by scrag; 01-20-08 at 09:15 PM.

01-22-08, 12:14 AM	#52
u.Prestige Loader Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 85 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	I expect SH5 to be WW2 style Dangerous Waters Campaign for both U-boats and USA submarines.... Single/Multiplayer missions for subs and escort DD/DE/Frigates:hmm: __________________ Haven't played SH3 or SH4 for months...

06-26-08, 06:19 AM	#56
LeeVanSpliff Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 127 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	If SH5 should show up and turn out to be either cold war or alternative history stuff I'm definitely not buying it. I find the cold war damn boring from the soldier's point of view ("YOU THERE! Watch this radar monitor for 40 years. If nothing happens you've won!"). I'm not a big fan of alternative history either. I believe the reason that almost every damn sci-fi movie or series rips of a historical period is that reality simply kicks the ass of imagination over and over. A 1914 Silent Hunter submarine simulation or a new Atlantic campaign game I'd buy in a heartbeat though. I would love to know more about wwi submarines and I'm simply a sucker for German subs in 39-45: the challenge curve going from the "happy times" to the '45 situation with the allies in complete control of the skies as well as the seas works so well for a computer game. __________________ "I'll rant as well as thou." Hamlet, Act 5, Scene 1

06-26-08, 06:19 AM	#57
Arclight Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Land of windmills, tulips, wooden shoes and cheese. Lots of cheese. Posts: 8,467 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 10	Some of this has been mentioned already, but I'll chip in; First of all, SH should stick with subs. Concentrating on a specific sector IMO improves the detail and emersion. Spreading the resources to make something like Dangerous Waters out of it wouldn't do it any good. A new (fictious) setting would be nice. I'd prefer the (late) WWII technology, since I find that the most interesting. Maybe a new spin on the dynamic campaign?: Randomly generated or user definable coalitions, 2 or more. User can join any at start, maybe defections mid-war? Available boats depend on which countries are in specific coalition. Policies for coalitions can be set or randomized. For example, 2 could be at war at start, with 2 more neutral. 1 decides to join in mid-war, with the other remaining neutral till almost the end of the war. Heck, coalitions could even splinter with half the former allies suddenly turning on their former comrades or just fight their own war. It would keep the T.O. dynamic. Formerly safe waters could turn hostile in a heartbeat. Player controlled and AI ships accidentaly or "accidentaly" sinking neutral or friendly shipping could have an effect on that nations policy, causing them to leave their coalition or defect. Now we're fighting a war with an outcome thats already set in stone. Feels a bit static to me. Either go out and hunt Japs, or go out and hunt the Allies. To keep playability for everyone high, players should probably have no say in politics, although it could be possible for skippers with a high standing / renown ("war hero" status) to chip in in the decision making. I also think the game should be more hardcore sim, players who don't wish to play like that still have the realism options to tweak the game to suit their style. A problem with this setting would be it doesn't follow history. Reliving historical battles that actually took place is something that drew me to SH in the first place (although besides the single missions I don't see much of that yet, short of modding the crap out of it). An option would be to include campaign "presets" to model it to historical accurate coalitions, like Axis vs. Alies. With such a dynamic setting, it would be "easy" to mod it to Cold War; "just" add some new, more modern ships to reflect technology of that era and use the already present option to form corresponding coaltions. An addon wouldn't have to be more than that; some new models, a "preset" file to set up the adversaries, and perhaps some files that add in historical battles. It could go on for ever. __________________ Contritium praecedit superbia.

01-18-08, 01:54 AM	#46
vindex Planesman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 192 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Regardless of the scenario, I'd like to see more attention paid to crew interaction and immersion issues in SH5. Look at any sub movie and the main themes will be morale, command, and how men packed in a tin can deal with pressure and fatigue. Although many aspect of SH4 are great, you don't really get the sense of the human dimension of sub warfare. "Morale" supposedly exists for each crew member, but I've never seen anything happen to it, always "normal." The only real effect of fatigue that I have seen is the length of time needed to reload the torpedo tubes. The crew have stats, but no personality, not even your officers. I'm not saying it should play out like a RPG, but utilize some elements from that genre might take SH to an entirely new level. Having to gauge how your officers and crew will respond to a decision, how it will affect their performance or atttitude towards you, would be both realistic and entertaining. ----------------- On a completely different note, what I would like to see is a Hornblower-style Napoleonic sailing ship sim with technical detail and mission structure along the lines of the SH series. Patrol coasts, capture prizes, conduct special missions -- all while mastering an entirely different set of tactics based on wind and weather. Storms would be more than just eye-candy, set your sails or rudder wrong and you might not survive them. Just a thought ...

01-20-08, 06:45 PM	#51
Baywing Watch Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	There are lots of areas to expand sims into, but the bottom line, is just that, the bottom line. If someone makes it, will they come?

01-23-08, 12:08 PM	#54
yamato9 Lieutenant Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sisak, Croatia Posts: 265 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Hi fellas! It whoud be nice when next Silent Hunter (SH5) whoud have playable german, american and british submarines in game. Also it whoud be exellent to be able to control fleet formations and large units (battleships, heavy cruisers) like Bismarck, Nelson, Iowa, Yamato, Prinz Eugen, Mogami. So that you can be in control of one flag ship but you can send radio and flag signals to other ships in formation, something like Great naval Battles, (or if you remember game DREADNOUGHTS from AMIGA) but with much better grafic and realism. It is very strange why somebody did not produce some surface battle simulator (silent Hunter with battleships) they produced PT boats, they produced Destroyer Command but simulation with capital units....they forgot.

06-27-08, 07:21 PM	#59
Doolan Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 112 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	I'll take WWI over Cold War any day, but I'd rather have Destroyer Command 2 than both of those. My arguments in favor of a WWI focus are that everything will be even more "artistic" (with less instruments to rely on) but there will still be plenty to sink, more than in SH3 or SH4 from 1917. A Cold War sim would be a glorified chess game with a nice atmosphere, but I can't see it having the entertainment potential of unrestricted submarine warfare. As for a DC2, it's something even SH4 would benefit from, and it's long overdue. We're already four titles into the submarine franchise and the second surface game hasn't even been suggested.

06-27-08, 09:58 PM	#60
Seminole Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,012 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	I would cheerfully purchase an updated German U-Boat WWII sim. I wouldn't complain about a Japanese WWII subsim either. A WWI U-Boat...I would buy it. A duke nuke em cold war sim???...what would be the point????......I just float around detering the commies? I just can't visualize this PC world allowing me to unleash total plutonium hellfire upon Moscow.