Take one minute to think about this

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Then he needs to go to a shelter.

Ah.

[DeepIron]

Just a man trying to live, that's all.

That pretty well sums it up. Humans will do just about anything to survive in any given situation. I doubt seriously that he was concerned with the morality of "stealing" or "borrowing" the garments when his survival was at stake.

People have done far, far worse...

[Snodrvr]

Basically I think the situation was handled rather well. The man shouldn't have borrowed the garments without asking, The guards finding the man properly assessed the situation and chose the correct course of action, and the police in realizing that no real damage had been done did the right thing in letting the man go the next morning.

I really don't see the controversy here.

[DeepIron]

The Donner party is the name given to a group of emigrants, including the families of George Donner and his brother Jacob, who became trapped in the Sierra Nevada mountains during the winter of 1846-47. Nearly half of the party died, and some resorted to eating their dead in an effort to survive.

Compared to the more extreme actions of humans in survival situations, such as the Andes and Donner episodes, the homeless man taking clothing to keep warm is a non-issue.

It depends on your perspective...

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ah.

Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?

[DeepIron]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?

It's a pointless argument. Unless one has access to information specifically regarding "homeless shelters" in his area, one cannot know with certainty if a shelter was even available or accessable. Besides, the homeless man exercised HIS FREE WILL in what he did. There is no directive that homeless people "must go to a shelter".

And yes, shelters can be bad places. I go to LA once a month and deliver goods to specific places in the southern commercial district. I have met street people and befriended some of them, bought them meals and talked to them. I've asked why they live on the street. A few have answered that it is safer on the street than in some shelters due to the crime and victimization that can occur.

[Zachstar]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

L

O

L

:rotfl:

[DeepIron]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

This whole episode is a "tempest in a teapot". One is forced to accept it because it has already happened. Whether you wish to accept his actions or not, that is your choice.

If however, one wishes to see less of this kind of thing happen again, all one has to do is be part of the solution. Instead of being indignant and judgemental, how about reaching into the pocketbook and donating to a shelter or charity so that those in society who are less fortunate than yourself might have a better option than stealing clothes.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by spooka 2

Perhaps there wasn't a shelter available to this unfortunate fellow. I don't know much about the German system but maybe the funding for shelters needs to be re-evaluated so that everyone has access to a shelter. Is there some type of co-payment which the man couldn't pay? Was he intoxicated and the shelter wouldn't take him in? We just don't know the whole story.. only the outcome.

Well here is the thing. Usually in civilized countries there are shelters to aid the homeless and get them back on their feet. Some .gov funded some private (church) this man should have gone to the police and asked for directions to the nearest shelter. If anything they could have atleast given him SOME info about anything or perhaps taken him in on something so they can give him a good rest in safety and a meal before sending him out again. I refuse to believe that there is nothing for these people in Germany.

Again I want proof, Otherwise this man is just stealing and needs to be charged for it.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by DeepIron

This whole episode is a "tempest in a teapot". One is forced to accept it because it has already happened. Whether you wish to accept his actions or not, that is your choice.

If however, one wishes to see less of this kind of thing happen again, all one has to do is be part of the solution. Instead of being indignant and judgemental, how about reaching into the pocketbook and donating to a shelter or charity so that those in society who are less fortunate than yourself might have a better option than stealing clothes.

Because my money is better spent supporting fusion development so that we can take the oil question out of of the economic situation so that maybe this man can find a newly formed job when the economy soars and housing prices become more reasonable.

I am about long term solutions. Yet I expect that the people who came before me set long term solutions as well with these shelter funds.

So no I am not going to be part of such a stupid solution. The shelter program exists and it ought to be used today. Fusion to give more jobs tommorow. Then whatever is needed after that.

I will speak for myself saying that if there is truely no way to get to the shelter and the local police have turned me away. Then I would rather die in the cold with my honor than steal and make some bullcrap excuse about it.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by spooka 2

I was thinking the same thing. Would we be discussing this if the poor soul had died from the cold? he'd just be another statistic. Thank goodness the clothing was available.

If he had died in the cold without stealing then he dosent have to face another day of the horrid world of no shelters or help that supposedly yall seem to be making this out to be.

Obviously that is bullcrap because there are shelters until there is direct proof that there are none.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

I will speak for myself saying that if there is truely no way to get to the shelter and the local police have turned me away. Then I would rather die in the cold with my honor than steal and make some bullcrap excuse about it.

Have you ever been in such a situation, or is this heroic conjecture?
If it's the first, fair enough.
If it's the second, get down off the cross. Someone else needs the wood.

[Zachstar]

Well thank you for that lovely bit. Just so you know that at the rate things are going with my life I will likely be homeless in a few months. Yet I plan to go to a SHELTER and if I can't reach one then I will go to the POLICE and ask them to point me to one.

If I have to be on the street then I will do so with honor and hope for my future. I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

If I have to be on the street then I will do so with honor and hope for my future. I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement.

You are still hypothesising, but then again, so am I. Not everyone shares your...terminal morality.
This man obviously didn't, and even if it takes us a generation to scrape together the dry-cleaning on those blankets I am sure that we, as a planet, can survive.

[Zachstar]

Breaking down of civilization happens from the small things.

Being homeless is never NEVER an excuse.You do not steal! You stay on the move. Doing what you can to get work, to find shelter, to survive.

What this man did was wrong. Supporting him is wrong and bad for society. Demanding solutions (Shelter and info + communitcation as shelter so this person can find work so that he can get an apartment) Is the way to go.

There have been many cases in the past where dirt broke homeless people in the past have found their way and lived a happy life afterwards. There is no excuse for society to not encourage that through more jobs and shelter programs.

My support is on the technology to get the jobs and fix this problem long term. Many others support the shelters as well as .gov programs to aid them. There is a shelter somewhere in Germany and mostly likely within police car traveling distance. I refuse to believe there isnt and I have not been shown proof there isnt yet.