Germany bans Cruise film shoot

[The Avon Lady]

As a Jew, who lost so many relatives to the Germans and their supporters, I say Skybird's got it just right.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Is it worse then translating tablets out of a hat though?

What private people believe, is not my interest. They can beliece as silly things as they want.
The acting of the organisation, it's psychological manipulation and control it uses on it's members, the demand for totalitarian control of economy and politics, is the danger, the disgusting thing,

Lieing, intimidating, mudthrowing, defamation, threatening by which this organization tries to push it's agenda, their attempt to secure beahheads in public education from where they can increase their possebility to even indoctrinate the youngest of the young is what is revealing it's true nature.

That they now start to hide their own identity even in their own material, is what speaks against them to reveal a true relgious truth to the world. It is about overcoming the states defense mechanism instead, and to betray and trap the private person that they have set their target sights on.

The aiming for money-money-money and the design of the hierarchical structure that is aiming of stripping people of their private money more and more in order to give them access to higher " levels of reveleations", and in order to make them work more hard to bring up the money for these paymenets to scientology is illustrating all one need to know in important things about this cynical sect that is managed like an economical empire.

and that they aggressively and cold-heartedly favour the strong one exlcusively, and to not know about the weakness of man that we all carry in us, too, shows how brutal and inhumane they really are. There is no love for thy next in that, and no human warmth. but every year many, many broken souls with ruined existences and major psychological problems. No wonder that scientology fights so bitterly against psychiatry - it reveals the real ammount of damage and inhumanity commited by this sect. What was it with mother and baby not allowed to most naturally cry when giving birth...?

Did Jesus act like this? Is it common practice in Judaism? Animism? Shinto? Has Buddha told people to treat other people in this way? Hinduism? Rural Taoism? Can anyone show up with an example of a widely accepted religion (in the strict meaning of the word) that compares to scientology? Indian's culture? Scandinavia mythology? Celtic culture? Anything...?

The movie "Getacca", despite the genetical implications, reminded me very much of scientology, too. Maybe some of you would accept to live in such a society. But I would search to destroy it. It's for robots, not man.

[Skybird]

On the remarks some people made that germany "bans shooting the movie", and that the family of Stauffenberg prevented the shooting.

Germany does not and cannot ban the shooting. It has no legal powers to do so. Germany simply refuses to cooperate in making a desired location, that is under administrative control of the German state authority, available to the shoot. Like you have the right to say No! when somebody asks you if he can film in your house.

The family of stauffenberg expressed their worries and concerns, but also admitted in writing that they have no legal means available to prevent scientology's engagement in that movie. that they are not happy that a known representant of a totalitarian organization plays the role of a man who died in order to overcome a totalitarian dictator, makes sense, don't you think? See here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108743

[U-533]

Scientology... HAA!

Next it will be "We came from monkeys"... haa.

The Avon Lady said It should be the right of any government to rule that a religion is a danger to its citizens or an outright business fraud scam.

Obviously, this is a very slippery slope and has to be decided by a reliable government body ( oxymoron alert! ).

I tend to agree, as long as the majority of it's citizens agree.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by U-533

Scientology... HAA!

Next it will be "We came from monkeys"... haa.

I tend to agree, as long as the majority of it's citizens agree.

I can assure you that this is the case in Germany. Talking of a very, very large majority.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Skybird hit the nail on the head here. 100% I agree. Not a normal thing for me to agree with you Skybird, but can't deny your dislike for this cult, and I also dislike this cult.

-S

I needed to read it twice to believe it.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

Woah, people are jumping on the intolerance bandwagon pretty quickly here.

Is this cult making the movie, or is (was) Cruise just going to be acting in it? That is the key question here imo. If it's the latter then what Germany is saying is that no one associated with an unpopular "religion" has a right to make a living on their soil. It's their business i guess, being their country, but i'll be expecting them to apply that standard to every Scientology member within their borders from big shot actors on down to a lowly convenience store clerk. Equal treatment under the law is the foundation of a representative government.

In the fedearl country of Bavaria, persons wanting to become teachers must sign a declaration that they have no lnks to scientology.

Beamte (civil servants? officials?) entering state service can be fired in germany on the basis of acting against the free-democratic constitutional order of the state. The constitution also limits basic rights and freedoms in that way that these rights become invalid and are not longer granted to a person if he/she isthreatening or trying to act against the basic constitional order of the the state. since the Verfassungsschutz (internal intelligence service, compares to the FBI), rates Scientology as a severe threat to the constituion and labels them as "extrem verfassungsfeindlich", it is only consequent to have scientologists in public offices and education under tight control and trying to get rid of them, or to even prevent them from entering service. So, it is not only in conformity with principal laws, but even with our constitution which was designed under massive american influence and supervision, btw.).

Scientology, like Waste Gate as well, of course hacks away against his by always referring to the Nazis, in excalty the way WG did. Banning scioentologists, they say, is like demanding "Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Scientologen!" (a reference to infamous historical quotings like "Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Juden"). But it does not compare, the roles are totally different.

France and Italy are two other european countries also known for going tough against scientology. In the late 80s and early 90s, they had 60-70 police raids and started charges of money laundering, tax fraud, a multitude of violations of economic laws, abuse of mentally deranged people, blackmailing, coercion, medical practicing without legal permission (Aprobation), violation of "Fürsorgepflicht", promoting child labour, torture, violation of laws regulating the working conditions of employees (employees were working until total physical exhaustion and complete breakdown)

As a former psychologist I must add to this that most cases of people and apostates finding their way into therapy due to psychological abuse and being exploited in a state of psychological dependance, never find their way to the courts, nevertheless show major degrees of psychiatric disorders, and generally-spoken: extreme psychological vulnerabilities.

In a way, scientology takes capitalism to extremes. no wonder that it is more popular in the anglosaxon world that is traditionally in favour of ultra-liberal self-regulation of the market, and uncontrolld capitalism. On EU level, it also finds allies amongst those politcal circles that share the general sympathy for this description of economy. What sceintology promotes is the law of the strongest, and the weak is left in the dust, and pays by being exploited. - End of the religious message.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

In the fedearl country of Bavaria, persons wanting to become teachers must sign a declaration that they have no lnks to scientology.

Beamte (civil servants? officials?) entering state service can be fired in germany on the basis of acting against the free-democratic constitutional order of the state. The constitution also limits basic rights and freedoms in that way that these rights become invalid and are not longer granted to a person if he/she isthreatening or trying to act against the basic constitional order of the the state. since the Verfassungsschutz (internal intelligence service, compares to the FBI), rates Scientology as a severe threat to the constituion and labels them as "extrem verfassungsfeindlich", it is only consequent to have scientologists in public offices and education under tight control and trying to get rid of them, or to even prevent them from entering service. So, it is not only in conformity with principal laws, but even with our constitution which was designed under massive american influence and supervision, btw.).

Scientology, like Waste Gate as well, of course hacks away against his by always referring to the Nazis, in excalty the way WG did. Banning scioentologists, they say, is like demanding "Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Scientologen!" (a reference to infamous historical quotings like "Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Juden"). But it does not compare, the roles are totally different.

France and Italy are two other european countries also known for going tough against scientology. In the late 80s and early 90s, they had 60-70 police raids and started charges of money laundering, tax fraud, a multitude of violations of economic laws, abuse of mentally deranged people, blackmailing, coercion, medical practicing without legal permission (Aprobation), violation of "Fürsorgepflicht", promoting child labour, torture, violation of laws regulating the working conditions of employees (employees were working until total physical exhaustion and complete breakdown)

As a former psychologist I must add to this that most cases of people and apostates finding their way into therapy due to psychological abuse and being exploited in a state of psychological dependance, never find their way to the courts, nevertheless show major degrees of psychiatric disorders, and generally-spoken: extreme psychological vulnerabilities.

In a way, scientology takes capitalism to extremes. no wonder that it is more popular in the anglosaxon world that is traditionally in favour of ultra-liberal self-regulation of the market, and uncontrolld capitalism. On EU level, it also finds allies amongst those politcal circles that share the general sympathy for this description of economy. What sceintology promotes is the law of the strongest, and the weak is left in the dust, and pays by being exploited. - End of the religious message.

Sky, like I said your country your business, but don't try to justify your countries persecution of yet another subset of people because it won't wash.

An actor is not a teacher or a government official so I fail to see how Germany can justify their claim that Tom Cruise *the individual* is guilty of "threatening or trying to act against the basic constitional order of the state" just by acting in a movie.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by August

An actor is not a teacher or a government official so I fail to see how Germany can justify their claim that Tom Cruise *the individual* is guilty of "threatening or trying to act against the basic constitional order of the state" just by acting in a movie.

Skybird already said:

Germany does not and cannot ban the shooting. It has no legal powers to do so. Germany simply refuses to cooperate in making a desired location, that is under administrative control of the German state authority, available to the shoot. Like you have the right to say No! when somebody asks you if he can film in your house.

[August]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Skybird already said:

Germany does not and cannot ban the shooting. It has no legal powers to do so. Germany simply refuses to cooperate in making a desired location, that is under administrative control of the German state authority, available to the shoot. Like you have the right to say No! when somebody asks you if he can film in your house.

Like I said, their country their business.

[Chock]

This argument is something that crops up to a greater or lesser degree whenever any of Scientology's flagship supporters make a movie, most notably when Travolta had his pet project to shoot L Ron Hubbard's Battlefield Earth some years ago.

Having read that book (which it's true is no Tale of Two Cities, but nevertheless quite a decent page-turner), I found myself disagreeing with many who were slamming the book and the subsequent movie as rubbish (many of whom had never troubled themselves to read read the book or see the movie and thus form a true opinion). It was clear many critics of the book and movie had an agenda where Scientology was concerned and channelled that vitriol into their criticisms of the book, and particularly the movie. Both of which are nowhere near as bad as is popularly touted, but are tarred with that opinion largely because of many critics' inherent dislike for Scientology.

I, and I imagine most other people, do not base what movies they choose to watch on whether the actors and producers vote the same way as me, unless of course their movie is trying to ram their ideology down my throat. If he was doing a remake of Jude Suss or something, I think we might have an argument.

Now, I am not even remotely in favour of Scientology, but I nevertheless thought that to use one's dislike of it to slam something else was rather a cheap shot. Back on the subject of Tom's latest 'masterpiece', it's apparent that the same methods are being used to forestall its production, and whilst I personally am quite amused to see people making life hard for Tom Cruise, I do think that confusing one issue with another in order to prevent filming is not really easy to condone if you believe in freedom of expression.

At the end of the day, I would place my faith in the fact that it's likely to be a turkey of massive proportions if TC is involved in it, thus allowing him to fall on his own sword, rather than being pushed onto it by misguided censorship.

Chock

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...Hubbard once said something like this: if you want to make really big money, don't just write funny books - found a religion. - So much for the authenticity of the "religion" thing with scientology.

Just look at 'The Secret'. It was dreamed up by a prostitute who is now filthy rich.

-S

[kiwi_2005]

Scientology is a made up fable by the author L. Ron Hubbard, you have to watch the documentary about his life which has ex members speaking out. The guy was mad as a rabbit, well mad in a sense but was pretty clued up he knew how to manipulate others and was a master in hypnosis. He made it up one of his fictional stories which he used as a tool to get rich quick schemes. Which he ended up broke and depressed later on.
He was a con man and your laugh your head off at how dumb his followers were. Can't put the link up cause its against the rules, but join up with Video google and find it there. Or could probably be found on YouTube.

[geetrue]

Your right kiwi, plus I can see your righteous anger ...

I don't have time to waste on that link even if it was up ... fiction is fiction, science is science.
Ron Hubbard put them both together ...

definition of science

the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding;

definition of fiction

something invented by the imagination or feigned;

[The Avon Lady]

Oh oh...