Not happy with SH4? Write your own! - Page 4

SimJack · 03-30-07, 07:33 AM

I am heavy into MS Flight Simulators. The same thing goes on for developers of add-ons that cost as much as this game. One aircraft add-on can cost $25-$50, and the next thing you know, it's FUBAR with needed patches that take months to get (if at all).

All driven by the almighty dollar (or euro) to get it released before the competition does. At least the sub community has people willing to devote time for mods and not charge for them. I have never paid for a sub mod, Flight Sim mods can get into mega bucks.

badkarma · 03-30-07, 08:02 AM

Interesting post, especially for me as I'm a C# developer

I think I get who you're aiming for, the people who pass off SH4 as no good and say they could do it better, it's easy. For those people, your post is an excellent start on their education to how hard good coding is.
The problem is, it's also read by (and maybe taken to heart by) a lot of people who know that it's hard to code and they couldn't do it.. yet have bought a faulty product from a company.

Maybe the car crashing and killing the family was an extreme example, so here's a more down to earth one...

A new style of TV comes out, we'll call it Ultra-HD. You head to the local electrical store and after being told by the salesman how great it is, you buy one and take it home.
When you get it home you find that it switches itself off every 2 hours, sometimes the picture shudders or shows half of 1 channel and half of another.
What do you do?
At any point whilst you discover this TV's problems do you think "Hmmm, Radio Shack/Maplins sell wire and stuff, I might try making my own one of these over the weekend"?
Or, do you go back and demand that something is done so that the faulty equipment that they quite happily took your money for is made to work as it was specified.

The problem with the gaming industry is that it is acceptable to push out unfinished, not fully tested products and "sort them later". No other sales industry allows this, yet we gamers seem to just put up with it, and it's madness.

I don't expect everything in life to be perfect, I'm not that unrealistic, but some of the buggy junk that games producers throw out that they then fix later on when they get round to it, is rediculous.

I guess I'd sum up with, if SH4 (or any game) is faulty or not as described then complain directly to the creators (posting in endless threads on forums just gets lost) and/or take it back to your game shop for a refund.
Ranting that you can do better is no use (and most likely very very very wrong!) but also putting up with it means that SH5 is gonna be JUST the same

Onkel Neal · 03-30-07, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badkarma

Ranting that you can do better is no use (and most likely very very very wrong!) but also putting up with it means that SH5 is gonna be JUST the same

Ha! What SH5?

Antrodemus · 03-30-07, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Ha! What SH5?

Was that an informed prediction?

/hopes not...

Floyd · 03-30-07, 08:57 AM

I've always found the design/modelling part of any project way more difficult than
the implementation/programming part. Imagine sitting in front of a white
paper and start to write down all (sub)systems that have to be designed
and "glue" them together (make a model) ... a nightmare.

Well, programming was real fun but it just takes too much time. If you can come
up with 200 lines of code a day (including design and debugging , so a really
optimistic value) and if a project has 200.000 lines of code (so rather small),
it will take you 1000 days or ~3 years of daily work to complete - so better forget it.

We should all enjoy the game, don't curse the devs and hope for a few
patches to fix the more or less annoying bugs. In this sense, happy hunting.

Onkel Neal · 03-30-07, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antrodemus

Quote:

Ha! What SH5?

Was that an informed prediction?

/hopes not...

I stated this in 2001 when SH2 came out, it still applies today. No sales = no future Silent Hunter. If Silent Hunter 2, which was a noble but crippled game, had not sold well, you would have never heard of SH3, let alone GWX or NYGM. People, in case you have not noticed, no one has made a real sub simulation other than Silent Hunter since 1994's Aces of the Deep. If you enjoy playing a sub simulation, you may want to think before posting a rant about some insignificant annoyance. If you have a criticism, by all means express it, but be reasonable, productive, and supportive. Show a little tact. Make it easy to distinguish your discussion from the spewmonkies who screech and foam like someone choked their dog over every problem, real or imagined. You are working with the dev team, in a partnership of player and developer, to keep naval sims alive. Because that's pretty much how it is, folks.

Just in case someone cannot read between the lines, let me black & white for you: If the game sells, they will consider future projects. If the game does not sale, it's on to Rayman: Raving Rabbits 2.

joea · 03-30-07, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

...it's on to Rayman: Raving Rabbits 2.

Oh wait...

lord bame · 03-30-07, 11:11 AM

90% of the cases its the publischers fault for rushing out a unfinished game.

SteamWake · 03-30-07, 11:24 AM

Why in the world would I want to create a game on my own ?

Look at all the grief you have to put up with.

fredbass · 03-30-07, 11:58 AM

I think most of us know it's not easy to build these games.

And it's not just UBI who's at fault, as most of us are fully aware. I think it's pretty clear that the entire system will need revamping if we're going to see a difference with the quality of products that are released.

Right now, it seems the only way it will change is when the execs can see enough negative financial impact towards their gaming companies, because complaints and suggestions have not been enough by themselves to get it done, unfortunately.

Otherwise, I don't know. Maybe somebody else who knows more than me will make an intelligent suggestion or have a realistic and plausible solution in mind that can get their attention.

I'm listening.

John Channing · 03-30-07, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord bame

90% of the cases its the publischers fault for rushing out a unfinished game.

Did you actually read anything that Neal posted above, or did you just feel the need to pound out a completely uninformed statement?

Perhaps a more appropriate name might be Lord Blame?

JCC

lord bame · 03-30-07, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord bame

90% of the cases its the publischers fault for rushing out a unfinished game.

Did you actually read anything that Neal posted above, or did you just feel the need to pound out a completely uninformed statement?

Perhaps a more appropriate name might be Lord Blame?

JCC

completely uninformed statement?

yeah like all software houses around the world deliberately release their precious game with full of bugs & critical errors... that would be suicide, don't you think ubisoft is the bad guy here?

personal attacks nice touch mr moderator..how old you are 14?

Immacolata · 03-30-07, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaxspore

why should we, when we put down 50$ expecting a completed product, with minor bugs if any???

Because the product you expect cost $500?

Antrodemus · 03-30-07, 01:23 PM

I'm surprised this thread was even allowed breathing space... it was a flame-fest just waiting to happen, with some rather surprising participants.

03-30-07, 01:27 PM

Its not only difficult to design and build a program like SH3 & 4
but think of the hardware

hundreds of Computers some more powerfull than others
hundreds of video cards
two different OS (Vista,XP)
Thousands of drivers for the above

Its quite daunting.

03-30-07, 07:33 AM	#46
SimJack Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee Posts: 27 Downloads: 847 Uploads: 0	I am heavy into MS Flight Simulators. The same thing goes on for developers of add-ons that cost as much as this game. One aircraft add-on can cost $25-$50, and the next thing you know, it's FUBAR with needed patches that take months to get (if at all). All driven by the almighty dollar (or euro) to get it released before the competition does. At least the sub community has people willing to devote time for mods and not charge for them. I have never paid for a sub mod, Flight Sim mods can get into mega bucks. __________________ "Peace Through Strength"

03-30-07, 11:11 AM	#53
lord bame Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: sweden Posts: 14 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	90% of the cases its the publischers fault for rushing out a unfinished game. __________________ ubi bring out the patches!

03-30-07, 11:58 AM	#55
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think most of us know it's not easy to build these games. And it's not just UBI who's at fault, as most of us are fully aware. I think it's pretty clear that the entire system will need revamping if we're going to see a difference with the quality of products that are released. Right now, it seems the only way it will change is when the execs can see enough negative financial impact towards their gaming companies, because complaints and suggestions have not been enough by themselves to get it done, unfortunately. Otherwise, I don't know. Maybe somebody else who knows more than me will make an intelligent suggestion or have a realistic and plausible solution in mind that can get their attention. I'm listening. __________________

03-30-07, 08:02 AM	#47
badkarma Sailor man Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 43 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Interesting post, especially for me as I'm a C# developer I think I get who you're aiming for, the people who pass off SH4 as no good and say they could do it better, it's easy. For those people, your post is an excellent start on their education to how hard good coding is. The problem is, it's also read by (and maybe taken to heart by) a lot of people who know that it's hard to code and they couldn't do it.. yet have bought a faulty product from a company. Maybe the car crashing and killing the family was an extreme example, so here's a more down to earth one... A new style of TV comes out, we'll call it Ultra-HD. You head to the local electrical store and after being told by the salesman how great it is, you buy one and take it home. When you get it home you find that it switches itself off every 2 hours, sometimes the picture shudders or shows half of 1 channel and half of another. What do you do? At any point whilst you discover this TV's problems do you think "Hmmm, Radio Shack/Maplins sell wire and stuff, I might try making my own one of these over the weekend"? Or, do you go back and demand that something is done so that the faulty equipment that they quite happily took your money for is made to work as it was specified. The problem with the gaming industry is that it is acceptable to push out unfinished, not fully tested products and "sort them later". No other sales industry allows this, yet we gamers seem to just put up with it, and it's madness. I don't expect everything in life to be perfect, I'm not that unrealistic, but some of the buggy junk that games producers throw out that they then fix later on when they get round to it, is rediculous. I guess I'd sum up with, if SH4 (or any game) is faulty or not as described then complain directly to the creators (posting in endless threads on forums just gets lost) and/or take it back to your game shop for a refund. Ranting that you can do better is no use (and most likely very very very wrong!) but also putting up with it means that SH5 is gonna be JUST the same

03-30-07, 08:57 AM	#50
Floyd Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 57 Downloads: 255 Uploads: 0	I've always found the design/modelling part of any project way more difficult than the implementation/programming part. Imagine sitting in front of a white paper and start to write down all (sub)systems that have to be designed and "glue" them together (make a model) ... a nightmare. Well, programming was real fun but it just takes too much time. If you can come up with 200 lines of code a day (including design and debugging , so a really optimistic value) and if a project has 200.000 lines of code (so rather small), it will take you 1000 days or ~3 years of daily work to complete - so better forget it. We should all enjoy the game, don't curse the devs and hope for a few patches to fix the more or less annoying bugs. In this sense, happy hunting.

03-30-07, 11:24 AM	#54
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Why in the world would I want to create a game on my own ? Look at all the grief you have to put up with.

03-30-07, 01:23 PM	#59
Antrodemus Torpedoman Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 117 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'm surprised this thread was even allowed breathing space... it was a flame-fest just waiting to happen, with some rather surprising participants.

03-30-07, 01:27 PM	#60
boatfull Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Its not only difficult to design and build a program like SH3 & 4 but think of the hardware hundreds of Computers some more powerfull than others hundreds of video cards two different OS (Vista,XP) Thousands of drivers for the above Its quite daunting.