The Silent Hunter 4 TDC discussion - Page 4

Observer · 03-24-07, 12:40 AM

One last point on the images above. Doing manual targeting well (data entry via the TDC) requires good strong plotting fundamentals. The plotting technique show above is standard USN practice for surface contact solution development, and should be used as a complement to data entry via the TDC.

This series is intended to show the changes necessary for the attack plot to actually become useful when used in conjunction with the PK mode on the TDC.

One other point about the TDC. When entering PK mode, the ownship dial always goes to 0 degrees relative regardless of the contacts actual relative bearing. This may be related to the PK issue noted earlier in this thread.

elanaiba · 03-24-07, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmohr

Confirmed!! Elan, you're brilliant!

It's true

but some other guy found the bug and solved it already....

ParaB · 03-24-07, 06:38 AM

One thing that's really driving me crazy is the constant resetting of torpedo settings in the TDC (full manual targetting). I set all forward torps for fast speed, impact detonator, set spread angle and depth. Then I open all torpedo doors. After a short time I hear clicking noises and the detonator has switched back to magnetic, as well as screwing over my angle input. The torpedo depth seems to stay as input.

Another annoyance: the tube doors seem to close again each time you choose another tube. In SH3 I could use the 3d-switches to keep the doors open, in SH4 there aren't any anymore...

PLEASE, dear devs, fix this.

TopCat · 03-24-07, 06:50 AM

Dunno if anyone pointed this out already. But the target course (upper outer ring of the tdc) shows wrong values, as soon you press the red button for auto-calculating. When you feed the TDC manually with the correct values, the course is shown correctly, but as soon as you push the button, the outer rings make a jump and the target course is not correct any more.

03-24-07, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heartc

Quote:

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

And excellent example Lio.

I was always wondering why my angles were off. That demonstrates the problem quite well.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but just to avoid confusion, I think what Lio wanted to demonstrate with that pic is how you USE the position keeper generally to find out solution errors, not showcase the bug. In his example, he set target speed (deliberately) too high so the position keeper generates relative target bearings that are "outrunning" the actual relative target bearings you can see through the scope/TBT. So you would have to lower target speed to correct for it.

P.S. Lio: Great pic. But instead of "True Bearing" rather say "Sighted Bearing" or "Actual Bearing", since "True Bearing" already has a meaning: Bearings aligned to North, or compass bearings. The opposite to Relative Bearing. So in your example, the target at a Sighted Relative Bearing of about 36 deg is at a True Bearing of 216 deg.

yes my screenshot demostrates how to use it. sry about the naming mix up

ive played all subsims inbetween sh1,688i to sh4 and still cant figure out the names for all those different angles.
I also mixed up port and starboard side

im noob and always get em wrong he he.

Hitman · 03-24-07, 03:24 PM

Quote:

It's true

but some other guy found the bug and solved it already....

Sorry but I don't know if I'm missing something...is the bug solved or not? I mean, is there something that can be done to avoid it, or is this saved for a future patch?? Confused...

divo 637 · 03-24-07, 03:32 PM

The original poster is correct. This is not working correctly. The issue is that it will work correctly sometimes then stops working.

The PK should mimic a LOS diagram. So that own ship will not always point straight up.

The Own Ship ring (the bottom one) should point to the true bearing to the target at the top. And the target ring should point to the true bearing of your ship (so 180 deg out from where own ship ring points).

The bug somehow forces a relative bearing of 0 to the top of the ring.

Watch the training video that is a sticky. It works fine at the TBT and when he goes below to the scope it works fine for a few seconds then it abruptly jumps to the realative bearing of zero at the top of the ring and does not change on the next several updates. You have to be looking for it. It happend quite fast.

This may have something to do with the inputs to the PK so that UbI had designed in some criteria on the way this work (maybe something about bearing inputs). Not sure. but this needs to be fixed.

Spectre-63 · 03-25-07, 01:33 AM

HI all -

started a second career today using manual TDC and things did not go nearly as well as I'd hoped.

The first thing I noticed was that virtually all of my range estimations (using the stadimiter) were well short of the target's actual range. I think I'm using it correctly: setting the horizontal line in the periscope along the waterline of the target, selecting the correct ID in the recognition manual, bringing up the image splitter/stadimeter, and placing the waterline in the top image on the top-most point in the bottom image. At first I thought I was mis-identifying the targets, but the sampan fishing trawlers couldn't be misidentified because there was only one with the correct number of sails.

The other thing I noticed is that, over time, the position keeper appears to get confused as to where the target actually is. The only thing I can think of is that my constant re-configuration of the target info is confusing it?? The lack of a functioning chrono is certainly hurting my speed estimates, but I think I can overcome that. I've got the 'turn off map updates' off, so I'm cross-referencing where the target appears on the map with where the TDC thinks the target is (white X with a tail indicating direction of movement).

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!!!

Gizzmoe · 03-25-07, 01:39 AM

I sticky this for a few days.

DJSatane · 03-25-07, 01:55 AM

I have few notes about manual TDC.

1. Point to Shoot problems in SH4
You know how in SH3 sometimes you would to setup your solution for point to shoot? Where in sh3 you would setup speed to 0 and then basically you would have it set for point to shoot, wherever bearing you look with periscope thats where torp would go? Very good for finishing disabled ships or good quick choice for a destroyer closing in below 1000m head on etc...

Well in SH4 things are very bad with this. You cannot setup point to shoot easily at all. Yes you can set speed to 0 etc... but even if you move periscope bearing to any location (makes no difference if you have position tracking keeper on or off) the firing solution will not adjust until you click send data to all 3 range, AOB and speed parts . Then and only then solution will reflect to shooting torpedo directly towards where you looking. If you move periscope a bit in any direction you cant fire to where you see until AGAIN you click all of those 3....very annoying. Remember I am doing that with speed to 0. I wish someone fixed this!

Conclusion I am afraid based on this observation, when you setup a solution for a locked target and click send to TDC on all 3 inputs, then if you unlock to maybe intuatively fire using the solution a bit ahead or behind the ship, I bet the solution wont use the bearing of periscope you using any more unless you reclick all 3 send to tdc buttons...very very annoying and compared to SH3 inferior.

I hope someone can fix this with a mod maybe so that we can click only 1 button to have data sent to tdc at once so that solution is updated based on where we point periscope.

2. Attack map problems and lack of features

In SH3 you seen all the TDC dials when you were in attack map... in SH4 you cannot see them except for torp tubes... If we had all the TDC dials there THEN you could not only visually check your firing solution but at the same time adjust speed etc... Currently you have to go through all the hoops clicking back to persicope to reinput stuff, WHY NOT HAVE STADIMETER/AOB/SPEED available at same time in attack map? come on. Maybe someone can mod this in? And come on why arent things like attack map binded to a button? Its annoying to have to click it to get to it. Buttons like F G H R are not used why not use them for few things that are in those sub menus? I know we can bind ourselves but come on!

Thanks for your time all, keep up this good TDC discussion thread up.

03-25-07, 04:11 AM

DJSatane, you can check your solution without going through your range settings etc.
If you click on the position kepper(PK) handler, to switch from torp input to position keeper data, you have all your info on your solution right there on those 2 dials.

indeed one can argue weather or not the gyro angle should be linked with the scope like it was in SH3, but, this might have been how it was done on US subs, im not sure.

But i do agree it would be nice if you could somehow ajust the TDC with the bearing of your scope. But again it actualy goes against the whole idea behind the PK. reason why you have to keep your periscope in aligned with the target in SH3 was that you didnt have a PK.
You made a solution but that solution degraded rapidly over time if you didnt have your scope locked to the target. That isnt so with the PK since it do all the tracking for you. It actualy gives you the advantage to compare PK target bearing with your own sighting bearing, so you can evaluate the accuracy of the solution.

Seadogs · 03-25-07, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre-63

I've got the 'turn off map updates' off, so I'm cross-referencing where the target appears on the map with where the TDC thinks the target is (white X with a tail indicating direction of movement).

I am using the same method to train myself on manual TDC. It works great. I'd say it works even better than auto tracking.

Having problems with my ranges too tho. Using the method above I can easily correct it, but I don't plan on playing like that forever.

Can anyone provide a good zoomed screeny of perfect standimeter alignment? It would help alot as I think it's an issue of finding the sweet spot.

ryuzu · 03-25-07, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectre-63

HI all -

started a second career today using manual TDC and things did not go nearly as well as I'd hoped.

The first thing I noticed was that virtually all of my range estimations (using the stadimiter) were well short of the target's actual range. I think I'm using it correctly: setting the horizontal line in the periscope along the waterline of the target, selecting the correct ID in the recognition manual, bringing up the image splitter/stadimeter, and placing the waterline in the top image on the top-most point in the bottom image. At first I thought I was mis-identifying the targets, but the sampan fishing trawlers couldn't be misidentified because there was only one with the correct number of sails.

The other thing I noticed is that, over time, the position keeper appears to get confused as to where the target actually is. The only thing I can think of is that my constant re-configuration of the target info is confusing it?? The lack of a functioning chrono is certainly hurting my speed estimates, but I think I can overcome that. I've got the 'turn off map updates' off, so I'm cross-referencing where the target appears on the map with where the TDC thinks the target is (white X with a tail indicating direction of movement).

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!!!

Did you check what measurement units the stadimeter is giving you?

If you're using imperial measurements, the units on the stadimeter dial are yards - not feet... There are 3 feet in a yard.

Oh, and the stadimeter measurement is supposed to be done while the scope is at high magnification (although this would lead to over rather than under reading).

r.

shawnyp420 · 03-25-07, 10:38 AM

Whats up with the auto-solution? I'm not exactly sure why its not working...But i'm hardly hitting ships here!! At the moment I'm using the torpedo school to debug the situation. I lock up the cruiser. I wait till the carrot is green. Set torpedo speed at high. Set fuse to contact and depth to about 10 feet and open the door. I shoot but the torpedo goes way left or misses...WTF? Shouldn't the auto-solution work dead center every time?

I'm getting so frusterated with this game...It's almost unplayable...But it LOOKS SO GOOD!!! Waaahhhhh.....

Dizoak · 03-25-07, 10:48 AM

leave your torpedo's on slow, they have more range and you can still hit a fast moving target with one. try to lead the cruiser a little bit, give yourself some steam and aim for shots at no more than 1400 meters range. remember to use the position keeper to update your solution JUST before you shoot. (also open your tube door before you shoot)

i do it in this order just to make sure i dont forget a step: lock target-open tube-do your torpedo programming (depth, set pistol, speed (if needed))-hit position keeper-depending on your tastes and the range to ship you might wait here and keep updating the position keeper-launch your tube. just rinse and repeat for any other tubes you want to shoot at the same target (just remember that if you switch tubes, your door will close and you have to reset all programming on a torpedo if you switch tubes before you shoot)

hope that isnt too confusing. good luck mate.

03-24-07, 06:38 AM	#48
ParaB Chief Join Date: May 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 327 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	TDC woes One thing that's really driving me crazy is the constant resetting of torpedo settings in the TDC (full manual targetting). I set all forward torps for fast speed, impact detonator, set spread angle and depth. Then I open all torpedo doors. After a short time I hear clicking noises and the detonator has switched back to magnetic, as well as screwing over my angle input. The torpedo depth seems to stay as input. Another annoyance: the tube doors seem to close again each time you choose another tube. In SH3 I could use the 3d-switches to keep the doors open, in SH4 there aren't any anymore... PLEASE, dear devs, fix this.

03-25-07, 01:33 AM	#53
Spectre-63 Medic Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 159 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	TDC/PK confusion!!! HI all - started a second career today using manual TDC and things did not go nearly as well as I'd hoped. The first thing I noticed was that virtually all of my range estimations (using the stadimiter) were well short of the target's actual range. I think I'm using it correctly: setting the horizontal line in the periscope along the waterline of the target, selecting the correct ID in the recognition manual, bringing up the image splitter/stadimeter, and placing the waterline in the top image on the top-most point in the bottom image. At first I thought I was mis-identifying the targets, but the sampan fishing trawlers couldn't be misidentified because there was only one with the correct number of sails. The other thing I noticed is that, over time, the position keeper appears to get confused as to where the target actually is. The only thing I can think of is that my constant re-configuration of the target info is confusing it?? The lack of a functioning chrono is certainly hurting my speed estimates, but I think I can overcome that. I've got the 'turn off map updates' off, so I'm cross-referencing where the target appears on the map with where the TDC thinks the target is (white X with a tail indicating direction of movement). Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!!!

03-25-07, 01:55 AM	#55
DJSatane Electrician's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 140 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I have few notes about manual TDC. 1. Point to Shoot problems in SH4 You know how in SH3 sometimes you would to setup your solution for point to shoot? Where in sh3 you would setup speed to 0 and then basically you would have it set for point to shoot, wherever bearing you look with periscope thats where torp would go? Very good for finishing disabled ships or good quick choice for a destroyer closing in below 1000m head on etc... Well in SH4 things are very bad with this. You cannot setup point to shoot easily at all. Yes you can set speed to 0 etc... but even if you move periscope bearing to any location (makes no difference if you have position tracking keeper on or off) the firing solution will not adjust until you click send data to all 3 range, AOB and speed parts . Then and only then solution will reflect to shooting torpedo directly towards where you looking. If you move periscope a bit in any direction you cant fire to where you see until AGAIN you click all of those 3....very annoying. Remember I am doing that with speed to 0. I wish someone fixed this! Conclusion I am afraid based on this observation, when you setup a solution for a locked target and click send to TDC on all 3 inputs, then if you unlock to maybe intuatively fire using the solution a bit ahead or behind the ship, I bet the solution wont use the bearing of periscope you using any more unless you reclick all 3 send to tdc buttons...very very annoying and compared to SH3 inferior. I hope someone can fix this with a mod maybe so that we can click only 1 button to have data sent to tdc at once so that solution is updated based on where we point periscope. 2. Attack map problems and lack of features In SH3 you seen all the TDC dials when you were in attack map... in SH4 you cannot see them except for torp tubes... If we had all the TDC dials there THEN you could not only visually check your firing solution but at the same time adjust speed etc... Currently you have to go through all the hoops clicking back to persicope to reinput stuff, WHY NOT HAVE STADIMETER/AOB/SPEED available at same time in attack map? come on. Maybe someone can mod this in? And come on why arent things like attack map binded to a button? Its annoying to have to click it to get to it. Buttons like F G H R are not used why not use them for few things that are in those sub menus? I know we can bind ourselves but come on! Thanks for your time all, keep up this good TDC discussion thread up. __________________ DJSatane - https://twitter.com/DJSatane

03-25-07, 10:38 AM	#59
shawnyp420 A-ganger Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 78 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Frusterating Time with Auto Solution Whats up with the auto-solution? I'm not exactly sure why its not working...But i'm hardly hitting ships here!! At the moment I'm using the torpedo school to debug the situation. I lock up the cruiser. I wait till the carrot is green. Set torpedo speed at high. Set fuse to contact and depth to about 10 feet and open the door. I shoot but the torpedo goes way left or misses...WTF? Shouldn't the auto-solution work dead center every time? I'm getting so frusterated with this game...It's almost unplayable...But it LOOKS SO GOOD!!! Waaahhhhh.....

03-24-07, 12:40 AM	#46
Observer Commander Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 477 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	One last point on the images above. Doing manual targeting well (data entry via the TDC) requires good strong plotting fundamentals. The plotting technique show above is standard USN practice for surface contact solution development, and should be used as a complement to data entry via the TDC. This series is intended to show the changes necessary for the attack plot to actually become useful when used in conjunction with the PK mode on the TDC. One other point about the TDC. When entering PK mode, the ownship dial always goes to 0 degrees relative regardless of the contacts actual relative bearing. This may be related to the PK issue noted earlier in this thread.

03-24-07, 06:50 AM	#49
TopCat Helmsman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 105 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 0	Dunno if anyone pointed this out already. But the target course (upper outer ring of the tdc) shows wrong values, as soon you press the red button for auto-calculating. When you feed the TDC manually with the correct values, the course is shown correctly, but as soon as you push the button, the outer rings make a jump and the target course is not correct any more.

03-24-07, 03:32 PM	#52
divo 637 Watch Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	The original poster is correct. This is not working correctly. The issue is that it will work correctly sometimes then stops working. The PK should mimic a LOS diagram. So that own ship will not always point straight up. The Own Ship ring (the bottom one) should point to the true bearing to the target at the top. And the target ring should point to the true bearing of your ship (so 180 deg out from where own ship ring points). The bug somehow forces a relative bearing of 0 to the top of the ring. Watch the training video that is a sticky. It works fine at the TBT and when he goes below to the scope it works fine for a few seconds then it abruptly jumps to the realative bearing of zero at the top of the ring and does not change on the next several updates. You have to be looking for it. It happend quite fast. This may have something to do with the inputs to the PK so that UbI had designed in some criteria on the way this work (maybe something about bearing inputs). Not sure. but this needs to be fixed.

03-25-07, 01:39 AM	#54
Gizzmoe Silent Hunter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 3,668 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I sticky this for a few days.

03-25-07, 04:11 AM	#56
Lio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	DJSatane, you can check your solution without going through your range settings etc. If you click on the position kepper(PK) handler, to switch from torp input to position keeper data, you have all your info on your solution right there on those 2 dials. indeed one can argue weather or not the gyro angle should be linked with the scope like it was in SH3, but, this might have been how it was done on US subs, im not sure. But i do agree it would be nice if you could somehow ajust the TDC with the bearing of your scope. But again it actualy goes against the whole idea behind the PK. reason why you have to keep your periscope in aligned with the target in SH3 was that you didnt have a PK. You made a solution but that solution degraded rapidly over time if you didnt have your scope locked to the target. That isnt so with the PK since it do all the tracking for you. It actualy gives you the advantage to compare PK target bearing with your own sighting bearing, so you can evaluate the accuracy of the solution.

03-25-07, 10:48 AM	#60
Dizoak Sailor man Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grid Reference CA Posts: 47 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	leave your torpedo's on slow, they have more range and you can still hit a fast moving target with one. try to lead the cruiser a little bit, give yourself some steam and aim for shots at no more than 1400 meters range. remember to use the position keeper to update your solution JUST before you shoot. (also open your tube door before you shoot) i do it in this order just to make sure i dont forget a step: lock target-open tube-do your torpedo programming (depth, set pistol, speed (if needed))-hit position keeper-depending on your tastes and the range to ship you might wait here and keep updating the position keeper-launch your tube. just rinse and repeat for any other tubes you want to shoot at the same target (just remember that if you switch tubes, your door will close and you have to reset all programming on a torpedo if you switch tubes before you shoot) hope that isnt too confusing. good luck mate.