Hillary Clinton

[Yahoshua]

Second, while Ms. Clinton does support stricter gun control (IMO not as strict as I would like), I cannot find any instance where she has declared her plans to completely end private gun ownership in the United States.


You forget that this woman is the wife of the man who instituted the infamous "Assault Weapons" Ban that sent our industry into a recession, shuttered nearly 1/3 of gunshops across the nation through frivolous lawsuits, and worked continuously to deny citizens the right to keep and bear arms by banning "military style" rifles and weapons.

The truth being that almost ALL military weapons began as a civilian arm that was eventually adopted by the military. The Winchester Lever Action, the Remington 700, the Musket, the Flintlock, the Wheelock, ALL of these firearms were designed and produce originally for civilian use that was eventually adopted by the military.

Then

Reckless lawsuits against gun companies

Illegal record-keeping on gun sales
Taxes on gun buyers
Gun show bans
Second Amendment scorned
Clinton semi-auto firearm and magazine ban
National five-day waiting period

Now
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act
Tiahrt Amendment to protect gun owners’ privacy
Fair tax exemption for gunsmiths
Gun law reforms
Second Amendment supported
Clinton ban sunset
National Instant Check System online

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_cat...&go.x=8&go.y=9

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

obama will never be president why?

because 3 reasons

1. hes waaayy inexperienced
2. the issue of him being african american (IM NOT RASCIST) im just saying theres alot of people down south who would rather vote for clinton or republicans then to vote for obama, then again he would prolly get 90% of the minority votes ( hspanic, african american and maybe asian,)
3. he jokes around alot especially on tv sure everyone wants a energetic leader but wut will he do if a serious problem arises like Iran or North Korea wuts he gonna do? joke aorund let the iran and n.koreans get pissed and launch a few nukes and vaporize a few million pple??

thats my 3 cents.

And of course his middle name is Hussein. Yes, Obama is a Musselman.

[dean_acheson]

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

obama will never be president why?

because 3 reasons


2. the issue of him being african american (IM NOT RASCIST) im just saying theres alot of people down south who would rather vote for clinton or republicans then to vote for obama, then again he would prolly get 90% of the minority votes ( hspanic, african american and maybe asian,)


thats my 3 cents.

I am not really going to get into this, but as someone who spent a good deal of time 'down south,' this is a really assnine statement. I have met more rascist Yankees than I have Southerners.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama

[Tchocky]

When I left Kommiefornia I almost couldn't believe the fact that I could purchase a gun and walk out of the store with it on the same day, and I'll be damned if I go back to the dark ages again without a fight. And debating whether or not she's a communist or a soacialist is irrelevant, I lose my personal freedoms all the same and become a slave to the state.

Are you willing to bet your freedoms on your opinion or on her voting record?

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.
Isnt "betting your freedoms on your opinion" the idea behind democracy?

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

ok then yankees and SOME southerners for ex those rich texas business tycoons?? they voted for bush?

wut about florida? didnt they rig the elections so bush won? im guessing florida is not gonna vote for obama

No! It was SCOTUS that gave Bush the election in 2000.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Originally Posted by waste gate

No! It was SCOTUS that gave Bush the election in 2000.

??????

Originally Posted by elite_hunter_sh3

??????

Supreme Court of the United States. SCOTUS

Tuesday, Dec. 12—The U.S. Supreme Court rules in Bush v. Gore 7–2 to reverse the Florida Supreme Court, which had ordered manual recounts in certain counties. The Court contends that the recount was not treating all ballots equally, and was thus a violation of the Constitution's equal protection and due process guarantees.

[Sailor Steve]

That only means that the Florida Court tried to give the job to Gore. The US Court simply kept them from doing it.

Which court was correct is a matter of opinion only.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

That only means that the Florida Court tried to give the job to Gore. The US Court simply kept them from doing it.

Which court was correct is a matter of opinion only.

Agreed!

Since the Constitution gives SCOTUS the final word, I'd give them the credit.

[Chaotic42]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

I can't buy a gun at home. This doesnt make me a slave to the state, send me into the dark ages, or take away any personal freedoms.

It takes away your freedom to purchase a gun. As per the second amendment, we have the right to bear arms:

-
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
-

Any attempt to regulate the ownership of arms would seem to infringe on that right and would therefore violate the Second Amendment.

Originally Posted by Chaotic42

It takes away your freedom to purchase a gun. As per the second amendment, we have the right to bear arms:

-
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
-

Any attempt to regulate the ownership of arms would seem to infringe on that right and would therefore violate the Second Amendment.

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

[Chaotic42]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

However, that's between him, the people of his country, and their government.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by waste gate

Here in lies the problem with an international forum. Tchocky lives in Europe, and does not have the same liberties or rights that those of us in the US share.

His experience does not allow for the bearing of arms as a hedge against a government as the enemy. Perhaps if it had been so the world would have been spared that dictator Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately they have not learned the lesson and probably never will.

For the record, I live in the USA. I said "at home" I can't buy a gun. I don't live in any sort of dark age, and I'm not a "slave to the state".

How very condescending of you. What would your response be if I took a similiar tack, tarring all Americans with the same brush? Think about what you're going to post, then start typing. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Edit:

I know, but self-defense is such an integral freedom in my mind. Even though he doesn't have it now, and never has had it, he still *deserves* in my mind, whether his government agrees or not.

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless. I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

[Chaotic42]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

. My country has had more than enough death and destruction wrought by guns and explosives in the last century; giving up guns as defence against a governement is a small thing.

Is that a function of the guns though? People that are going to destroy things and oppress people will do it with or without guns.

Edit:

Thats an interesting notion. I dont have a gun, and am therefore defenceless.

I never said that. To me, gun ownership is a part of self-defense. It's not the whole thing.

I've never been in a situation that needed resolution via firearm. This is possibly because guns are very difficult to get hold of at home, and so armed crime is rare. There may be some sort of connection there.

Me neither and guns are plentiful here. So plentiful infact that many won't hesitate to shoot an intruder dead. Doesn't Switzerland have a large number of guns per citizen and also low crime? Criminals will get guns whether they are legal or illegal.