DSubs - abstract multiplayer subsim - Page 4

Boris-Barboris · 06-03-20, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HobbitJack

Just a note, when I go to get on, I authorize, select a mode (singleplayer, in my case =), select a sub, and then get booted to the startup screen, which then prevents me from authorizing to try again.

Is this a known issue?

My bad, didn't test windows client properly.

https://github.com/Boris-Barboris/ds...ses/tag/v0.1.1

HobbitJack · 06-04-20, 11:17 PM

Thanks man!

Boris-Barboris · 09-08-20, 05:30 PM

https://github.com/Boris-Barboris/ds...ses/tag/v0.2.0

I've got some work done on the scenario system.
Triggers, conditions, goals, map element classes take shape and are already sufficient to write basic missions.

4 mediocre half-text half-exercise tutorials can now be selected in the main menu and played:

Navigation
Active sonar + TMA
Torpedoes
Hydrophone + more TMA.

Some QoL features, namely:

hydrophone ray data rendered on waterfall display.
active sonar ping visualized on F1 tactical map.
split window button in the top right corner.

It looks like it is finally time to work extensively. The last thing I want to do before public release is a campaign.

It will require new submarines, new weapons, decoys, and some writing skills. After that the game should be ready to have something like an itch.io page.
Hopefully, it will be ready in January.

maxadmiral · 09-25-20, 06:21 AM

I think it would be great if there were a few different multiplayer modes, particularly one that would not have the hostile AI.

It would be great when playing with/against friends, especially those who are new to the genre.

Boris-Barboris · 09-25-20, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxadmiral

I think it would be great if there were a few different multiplayer modes, particularly one that would not have the hostile AI.

It would be great when playing with/against friends, especially those who are new to the genre.

Some kind of arena with only civilian bots? Not a bad idea.

And cmon, you've killed lagranger first )

maxadmiral · 09-25-20, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris-Barboris

And cmon, you've killed lagranger first )

Haha! I would never do such a thing

xnonix · 10-06-20, 06:31 AM

Long time without checking Indie Subsims and I found this!

I always thought in a modern era subsim based on sensors saving the lacks on DW.
You made it. Exactly the right concept to make a Subsim fun to play.

I love the interface shown on videos. Well done!!!

Sound propagation and depth would bring the sim to a new level if you implement it.

Thanks to make my day! Can wait to get home to try it!

Thank you and much luck on the project.

Aktungbby · 10-06-20, 11:11 AM

maxadmiral!

& xonix!

you're both proven 'silent runners'!

Boris-Barboris · 10-06-20, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnonix

Long time without checking Indie Subsims and I found this!

I always thought in a modern era subsim based on sensors saving the lacks on DW.
You made it. Exactly the right concept to make a Subsim fun to play.

I love the interface shown on videos. Well done!!!

Sound propagation and depth would bring the sim to a new level if you implement it.

Thanks to make my day! Can wait to get home to try it!

Thank you and much luck on the project.

Thanks, appreciate it.

Saw you on the server, not a bad hit on two bots, but torpedo evasion needs some work

Replay is delayed, you'll see what happened in a couple of hours.

xnonix · 10-07-20, 01:55 AM

Hi Boris and others,
I will give you some feedback from my short gameplay yesterday.

GAMEPLAY:
I played the tutorials first. They are good enough for a noob like me to start using the sim. I was playing with two monitors. One for tactical view and the other for sensors. The interface is very good and fast. I spent most of the time trying TMA and tracking targets. The game is too much fast paced for me. Or simply the circle of action is too small. Or, even, the TMA info is updated too fast. I had problems doing TMA that I will explain later.

HELM
I would like to set the speed of the sub from presets (right button on the map and set speed) or writing the speed we want. Now you have to put the power you want to apply to the propeler to set the wanted speed by trial and error. You could make it more like DW or CW.

SENSORS
The sensors is the most I liked. All the information was presented very clear, zoomable, panable. The only thing I missed is that Bow sonar and Towed array panning was syncronized. I mean, if I have 180 bearing in the top center of the screen on Bow sonar and I change to Towed array, I would like to see the same exact bearing on the top center. Whe I got killed I was seeing on the towed array the ping spikes the torp was doing. I realised I could mark them. But it was too late and I didn't do evasion because didn't know what was happening, but I learnt that I didn't have enought time to tma the torp and I have to rely solely on sensor information for doing the evasion. I love the way it is this part of the game.

TACTICAL VIEW
I like the interface of the tactical view. Very intuitive and working very good.

TMA
Well, this is what take me long to get used and I would like to make some points of discussion here.
1. Bearing update time. I think is too short. Tons of lines accumulates in few minutes and they are hard to process, more when you have merged information from 2 sensors. You could make this time selectable. I know I can get rid of the old lines from right button menu, but I realised I am doing it very often.
2. Old bearing lines management: I suggest that we could decide how many lines we want for doing TMA and the update time for them. Old lines should dissapear automatically.
3. Bearing lines importance: I would like to see newer lines bolder and clearer than old lines that should be thinner and darker. I had bad time looking for the correct line crosing between Bow and Towed sonars and when I found it another line appears, or ever 2 of them. I was a bit overwhelmed.
4. Error management: I would like to see the dot stack (like DW or Fast Attack) for doing the TMA. The actual TMA error showing is nice but I lose the track of what I'm doing when there are tons of lines and error lines. The most I like on TMA is the old FASTATTACK subsim way with 3 controls to select the speed, course and distance of the target.

CONCLUSION
Very nice subsim. Loved it. I'd like to see the suggestions I made or at least part of them implemented in the game.
This work deserves more attention by subsimmers. I would like you (Boris) tell us what is the TODO list for us to make more suggestions.

Congrats Boris, you are doing a great job. Keep it up.

Boris-Barboris · 10-07-20, 05:03 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to address some points now:

1). Telegraph and set speed are in TODO list, got it.

2). Hydrophone "camera" synchronization is something I thought would annoy me, probably best to keep it optional, togglable. Not a bad idea.

3). "but I learnt that I didn't have enought time to tma the torp and I have to rely solely on sensor information for doing the evasion".
That is what I have found myself as well. When I started I though the game would be more "chill", TMA would take the largest portion of the time and every solution would be perfect. It turns out I didn't understand how underwater combat works.
I now believe that the romantic visage of silent assassin that only listens and goes slowly is just a fantasy. You must be fast, you must rapidly react to all new hydrophone contacts, you must be energetic: cavitation is a necessity, pings, rapid course changes and decoy spam. Accurate TMA is only the first shooter's privilege, when the first torp launches, precision and leisure goes out the window.
For example: you see new hydrophone contact, you listen to it, it's a torp or maybe a torpedo tube flood noise, you immediately go tangential to it at flank and drop 3-4 decoys. No time for TMA indeed.

4). Bearing ray data generation rate should probably be tunable in UI. It's fine for me. I definitly hated DW's default timing that was like 5 minutes or something like that.

5). "Old lines should disappear automatically and old lines that should be thinner and darker".

Not a bad idea, but also needs some kind of tuning. Maybe it's better to make old ray data more sparse as well, I don't know.

6). "I had bad time looking for the correct line crossing between Bow and Towed sonars".
When bow and towed trackers track one merged contact they are synchronized, purple error leg will base itself on the correct ray crossing, just FYI.

7). "error dot stack".

Not sure I'd like that. Maybe much later, but definitely not soon. I understand the sentiment, It's what we all are used to, I just don't want to focus on TMA in the nearest future and really love/"proud of" the purple legs

8). "with 3 controls to select the speed, course and distance of the target".
If you mean textual/digital input of these parameters, I think it's a nostalgia speaking to you. Mouse is, in my experience, 10 times faster. Even DW favored mouse movement, and it's DEMON screen unrealistic fixation on integer speed numbers made the speed lock of the TMA screen too powerful. There's no reason for any ship to go exactly 20 kts, for example, especially in the game where there is a direct engine power control nob. All speeds will be floating point, and you'll need the flexibility of the mouse.
Generally, I'm not sure I'll be doing a numeric input for contact this year. Cluttering and information overload are more important problems, as you have probably noticed. Maybe it's better to just open-source the client later so the others can do things I'm too lazy or don't want to do.

9). The plan for now is to make a campaign and add 3-4 interesting playable subs and a bunch of torps that are really different. Twin-towed-array sub like DW's LA, 3-tube pseudo-russian firepower-focused something, maybe some kind of underwater jamming thingie, rocket-torps are the things that come to mind.

xnonix · 10-08-20, 02:07 AM

Hi subsimers,
more feedback for Boris:
On my last run I made 5 kills without even TMA or active pinging. My tactic was be quiet, listen, snapshot what you hear, on enemy ping or transient, launch decoys and run, then repeat.

1. I still think the scenario is too small. You can't make tactics. You don't have enough room to evade torpedos properly as well.

2. Almost any snapshot is a kill.

3. Enemies are spawn too near to your sub. That's not good for the tactics as well. I am reloading and snapshoting every second I can.

4. I can't imaging a proper tactic based on stealth on this sim.

5. I'd like to spend more time tracking, classifing, instead of snapshoting like a machine gun.

6. Enemies pings should create a contact line on Tactical view for you to snapshot fast.

7. Closing torpedos pings should be audible for you to figure how close they are.

I like the sim a lot. Thx for the hard work on it. Hope it gets better and better.

Regards

Boris-Barboris · 10-12-20, 11:44 AM

Ok, that was a funny snapshot at ~16:40 GMT, well done, you watch your baffles well.

Indeed, Minoga's sensor appears to be to strong, and I can agree with your low TTK (time-to-kill) and torpedospam argument. I'll try to do something with it on this weekend.

xnonix · 10-12-20, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris-Barboris

Ok, that was a funny snapshot at ~16:40 GMT, well done, you watch your baffles well.

Indeed, Minoga's sensor appears to be to strong, and I can agree with your low TTK (time-to-kill) and torpedospam argument. I'll try to do something with it on this weekend.

You got spawned too near to me! Hehe!
Was a nice run. 24 kills in 2 hours till death. I'm getting the hang of it. Was fun!
I got your points of how sub warfare should be. Fast moves, listen, shoot, evade and run for another position.

3 torpedos for reload circle is very good. It makes you displace a lot on the map.

Can you make spawn distance bigger between players? This is: If you spawn point is too near to another player, the system should try another one, etc.

Sensors are ok for me. But torpedos speed seems too fast. With a bit slower torpedos, hits will be harder to achieve.

Thx for the game. I'm enjoying it a lot.

Regards.

xnonix · 10-22-20, 12:52 PM

Hey Boris,
great work on v0.2.1. Now the game is much more balanced.

Feedback:

1. I had several crashes to desktop when I drop a contact that is merged with an active source or marked ping on BB.

2. Torpedo range is too short even with the lowest "speed to activate" settings. I have to see the replay to see if this is correct.

3. If we could change bearing of data samples by draging them would be nice. I'd like to change wrong samples of a tracker that followed the wrong target after crossing.

4. For the first time I tried the active sonar and now is much more usefull because targets are far enough for you to feel safe on using it.

You fixed lots of my suggestions about the sim and I only can say thank you very much for the good work.

Regards.

09-08-20, 05:30 PM	#48
Boris-Barboris Mate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 56 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	https://github.com/Boris-Barboris/ds...ses/tag/v0.2.0 I've got some work done on the scenario system. Triggers, conditions, goals, map element classes take shape and are already sufficient to write basic missions. 4 mediocre half-text half-exercise tutorials can now be selected in the main menu and played: Navigation Active sonar + TMA Torpedoes Hydrophone + more TMA. Some QoL features, namely: hydrophone ray data rendered on waterfall display. active sonar ping visualized on F1 tactical map. split window button in the top right corner. It looks like it is finally time to work extensively. The last thing I want to do before public release is a campaign. It will require new submarines, new weapons, decoys, and some writing skills. After that the game should be ready to have something like an itch.io page. Hopefully, it will be ready in January. Last edited by Boris-Barboris; 09-09-20 at 02:53 AM.

10-06-20, 11:11 AM	#53
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 28,786 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard maxadmiral! & welcome back xonix! maxadmiral! & xonix! you're both proven 'silent runners'! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness; and I'm not too sure about the Universe"

10-07-20, 05:03 AM	#56
Boris-Barboris Mate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 56 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to address some points now: 1). Telegraph and set speed are in TODO list, got it. 2). Hydrophone "camera" synchronization is something I thought would annoy me, probably best to keep it optional, togglable. Not a bad idea. 3). "but I learnt that I didn't have enought time to tma the torp and I have to rely solely on sensor information for doing the evasion". That is what I have found myself as well. When I started I though the game would be more "chill", TMA would take the largest portion of the time and every solution would be perfect. It turns out I didn't understand how underwater combat works. I now believe that the romantic visage of silent assassin that only listens and goes slowly is just a fantasy. You must be fast, you must rapidly react to all new hydrophone contacts, you must be energetic: cavitation is a necessity, pings, rapid course changes and decoy spam. Accurate TMA is only the first shooter's privilege, when the first torp launches, precision and leisure goes out the window. For example: you see new hydrophone contact, you listen to it, it's a torp or maybe a torpedo tube flood noise, you immediately go tangential to it at flank and drop 3-4 decoys. No time for TMA indeed. 4). Bearing ray data generation rate should probably be tunable in UI. It's fine for me. I definitly hated DW's default timing that was like 5 minutes or something like that. 5). "Old lines should disappear automatically and old lines that should be thinner and darker". Not a bad idea, but also needs some kind of tuning. Maybe it's better to make old ray data more sparse as well, I don't know. 6). "I had bad time looking for the correct line crossing between Bow and Towed sonars". When bow and towed trackers track one merged contact they are synchronized, purple error leg will base itself on the correct ray crossing, just FYI. 7). "error dot stack". Not sure I'd like that. Maybe much later, but definitely not soon. I understand the sentiment, It's what we all are used to, I just don't want to focus on TMA in the nearest future and really love/"proud of" the purple legs 8). "with 3 controls to select the speed, course and distance of the target". If you mean textual/digital input of these parameters, I think it's a nostalgia speaking to you. Mouse is, in my experience, 10 times faster. Even DW favored mouse movement, and it's DEMON screen unrealistic fixation on integer speed numbers made the speed lock of the TMA screen too powerful. There's no reason for any ship to go exactly 20 kts, for example, especially in the game where there is a direct engine power control nob. All speeds will be floating point, and you'll need the flexibility of the mouse. Generally, I'm not sure I'll be doing a numeric input for contact this year. Cluttering and information overload are more important problems, as you have probably noticed. Maybe it's better to just open-source the client later so the others can do things I'm too lazy or don't want to do. 9). The plan for now is to make a campaign and add 3-4 interesting playable subs and a bunch of torps that are really different. Twin-towed-array sub like DW's LA, 3-tube pseudo-russian firepower-focused something, maybe some kind of underwater jamming thingie, rocket-torps are the things that come to mind. Last edited by Boris-Barboris; 10-07-20 at 07:26 AM.

10-08-20, 02:07 AM	#57
xnonix Watch Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hi subsimers, more feedback for Boris: On my last run I made 5 kills without even TMA or active pinging. My tactic was be quiet, listen, snapshot what you hear, on enemy ping or transient, launch decoys and run, then repeat. 1. I still think the scenario is too small. You can't make tactics. You don't have enough room to evade torpedos properly as well. 2. Almost any snapshot is a kill. 3. Enemies are spawn too near to your sub. That's not good for the tactics as well. I am reloading and snapshoting every second I can. 4. I can't imaging a proper tactic based on stealth on this sim. 5. I'd like to spend more time tracking, classifing, instead of snapshoting like a machine gun. 6. Enemies pings should create a contact line on Tactical view for you to snapshot fast. 7. Closing torpedos pings should be audible for you to figure how close they are. I like the sim a lot. Thx for the hard work on it. Hope it gets better and better. Regards Last edited by xnonix; 10-08-20 at 02:20 AM.

06-04-20, 11:17 PM	#47
HobbitJack Watch Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 22 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	Thanks man!

09-25-20, 06:21 AM	#49
maxadmiral Nub Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 2 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I think it would be great if there were a few different multiplayer modes, particularly one that would not have the hostile AI. It would be great when playing with/against friends, especially those who are new to the genre.

10-06-20, 06:31 AM	#52
xnonix Watch Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Long time without checking Indie Subsims and I found this! I always thought in a modern era subsim based on sensors saving the lacks on DW. You made it. Exactly the right concept to make a Subsim fun to play. I love the interface shown on videos. Well done!!! Sound propagation and depth would bring the sim to a new level if you implement it. Thanks to make my day! Can wait to get home to try it! Thank you and much luck on the project.

10-07-20, 01:55 AM	#55
xnonix Watch Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hi Boris and others, I will give you some feedback from my short gameplay yesterday. GAMEPLAY: I played the tutorials first. They are good enough for a noob like me to start using the sim. I was playing with two monitors. One for tactical view and the other for sensors. The interface is very good and fast. I spent most of the time trying TMA and tracking targets. The game is too much fast paced for me. Or simply the circle of action is too small. Or, even, the TMA info is updated too fast. I had problems doing TMA that I will explain later. HELM I would like to set the speed of the sub from presets (right button on the map and set speed) or writing the speed we want. Now you have to put the power you want to apply to the propeler to set the wanted speed by trial and error. You could make it more like DW or CW. SENSORS The sensors is the most I liked. All the information was presented very clear, zoomable, panable. The only thing I missed is that Bow sonar and Towed array panning was syncronized. I mean, if I have 180 bearing in the top center of the screen on Bow sonar and I change to Towed array, I would like to see the same exact bearing on the top center. Whe I got killed I was seeing on the towed array the ping spikes the torp was doing. I realised I could mark them. But it was too late and I didn't do evasion because didn't know what was happening, but I learnt that I didn't have enought time to tma the torp and I have to rely solely on sensor information for doing the evasion. I love the way it is this part of the game. TACTICAL VIEW I like the interface of the tactical view. Very intuitive and working very good. TMA Well, this is what take me long to get used and I would like to make some points of discussion here. 1. Bearing update time. I think is too short. Tons of lines accumulates in few minutes and they are hard to process, more when you have merged information from 2 sensors. You could make this time selectable. I know I can get rid of the old lines from right button menu, but I realised I am doing it very often. 2. Old bearing lines management: I suggest that we could decide how many lines we want for doing TMA and the update time for them. Old lines should dissapear automatically. 3. Bearing lines importance: I would like to see newer lines bolder and clearer than old lines that should be thinner and darker. I had bad time looking for the correct line crosing between Bow and Towed sonars and when I found it another line appears, or ever 2 of them. I was a bit overwhelmed. 4. Error management: I would like to see the dot stack (like DW or Fast Attack) for doing the TMA. The actual TMA error showing is nice but I lose the track of what I'm doing when there are tons of lines and error lines. The most I like on TMA is the old FASTATTACK subsim way with 3 controls to select the speed, course and distance of the target. CONCLUSION Very nice subsim. Loved it. I'd like to see the suggestions I made or at least part of them implemented in the game. This work deserves more attention by subsimmers. I would like you (Boris) tell us what is the TODO list for us to make more suggestions. Congrats Boris, you are doing a great job. Keep it up.

10-12-20, 11:44 AM	#58
Boris-Barboris Mate Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 56 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Ok, that was a funny snapshot at ~16:40 GMT, well done, you watch your baffles well. Indeed, Minoga's sensor appears to be to strong, and I can agree with your low TTK (time-to-kill) and torpedospam argument. I'll try to do something with it on this weekend.

10-22-20, 12:52 PM	#60
xnonix Watch Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 17 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Hey Boris, great work on v0.2.1. Now the game is much more balanced. Feedback: 1. I had several crashes to desktop when I drop a contact that is merged with an active source or marked ping on BB. 2. Torpedo range is too short even with the lowest "speed to activate" settings. I have to see the replay to see if this is correct. 3. If we could change bearing of data samples by draging them would be nice. I'd like to change wrong samples of a tracker that followed the wrong target after crossing. 4. For the first time I tried the active sonar and now is much more usefull because targets are far enough for you to feel safe on using it. You fixed lots of my suggestions about the sim and I only can say thank you very much for the good work. Regards.